Comments

D.B. Cooper wrote on Oct 9, 2008 7:33 PM:

" All you pot loving freaks need to stay in your doublewide and only come out to cash your welfare checks. "




OH MY MY wrote on Oct 8, 2008 4:29 PM:

" WHAT ABOUT A THATCHER MORMON MIDDLE SCHOOL BASKETBALL COACH BUSTED FOR POT!!!! "




Anna D. wrote on Oct 6, 2008 5:38 PM:

" Annoyed, you claim native american, but am i hearing 'apple-speak'? That is what happens when a culture has its children taken from them and raised by others. You've heard about the christian boarding schools, no? Your choice. Peace. "




Anna D. wrote on Oct 6, 2008 5:22 PM:

" Let us put god on trial for creating cannabis? He loves the incense, in the bible, so be careful, now. You will also be alarmed when we say that the holy oil of the OT is thought by Jewish scholars to contain cannabis, not 'canna'(which is a tropical plant, not likely to be used by desert folk). THE ANNOINTED was Sponsered by the Haoma loving Maji/Zorastrians from the land of dense cannabis thickets. Bactria was along the trade routes. I contend that the miracles of healing had something to do with CANNABIS. NEW WINE, etc. "




D.B. Cooper wrote on Oct 6, 2008 1:21 PM:

" Billy, where did you get your education from? I have no idea what you were trying to say, other than you dislike Mormons. If you dont like them, then stay in your trailor with your dogs and other animals. "




Billy1 wrote on Oct 6, 2008 11:33 AM:

" all of you that find this Horrible Pot issue bad got your CTR rings on right cause thats why all this is such a big deal cause your all mormons!!!!!! duh "




Annoyed wrote on Oct 4, 2008 11:17 AM:

" Also, I am native american and I don't believe in smoking peyote for religious purposes. We can get close to our maker without mind altering drugs. We have illegal drugs for a reason, that is why their illegal. I just don't know what this world is coming to. =( "




Annoyed wrote on Oct 4, 2008 11:11 AM:

" I can't believe their actually using pot in the name of God, but the Bible says that satan also knows the Bible well. Their misconstruing everything that God stands for. Just ask WHAT WOULD JESUS DO? Would Jesus smoke pot with your chuch members. I think not. Also, making up excuses oh well this church serves wine to children doesn't give in any way excuse your buying pot and giving it to church memebers to smoke. If someone's is chemically imbalanced in their body and you give them weed how is that going to make them better? Drugs are bad! "




14 days wrote on Oct 1, 2008 10:10 PM:

" According to the Couriers own words on this blog in 14 days they take it off ...boy this mess has been going for 21 days and it was worn out after the second day. Anna and the guy from Hawaii need to go along with the rest of the bloggers.
STOP it now. "




Anna D. wrote on Oct 1, 2008 12:17 PM:

" HARRR, you don't think that insurance companies take in data on "illegal" activities???? (you may have to ponder that a while)
RIGHT,they only keep track of legal things, like the MMJ LAWS that these states have on RECORD. "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 30, 2008 1:38 PM:

" Anna D.,

Sorry to inform you, but if I remember right, Alcohol consumption was not a question asked before I got motorist insurance. They checked my driving record to see if I have had a DUI, but just like Alcohol, you also get DUI if you are smoking pot and caught.

As far as stats on Accidents involving Alcohol and accidents involving Marijuana, I'm not sure the study has been done. BEING THAT MARIJUANA IS ILLEGAL USE USE NO MATTER WHAT STATE YOU ARE IN!!!! Federal Law trumps STATE Law. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 29, 2008 8:50 PM:

" No Frank, that would be harm. We harm no one.
R.C., Yes, California has insurance companies that insure mmj people. Some of these people drive, they almost all live somewhere. Insurance companies have the stats, believe me. Where have you been these past few years? California considers mmj LEGAL, and YES these folks get insured. i contend that the stats are favorable for mmj folks, THAT's why the govt isn't screaming its head off about it. People CAN use mmj responsibly, even religious folk. "




Frank wrote on Sep 29, 2008 9:30 AM:

" Let me get this straight... If I say that my religion requires me to kill young virgins, it's ok right? Religious freedom and all. "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 28, 2008 2:29 AM:

" "How did your California insurance search go?"

What search. First off, since marijuana is ILLEGAL to use, why would the insurance companies conduct a study of the use of an illegal substance and how use of it affects driving. The studies about alcohol are because alcohol is a "Restricted" substance. It is legal to consume if you are of age. Marijuana is ILLEGAL to use.

State law does not trump federal law. Ask all the "Dispensaries" that have been shut down in California after the FEDERAL government siezed their property. "




zzzzz wrote on Sep 27, 2008 10:04 AM:

" This has to set a new record for trivial blogs. No one really cares what a bunch of old dope smokers are saying to justify their actions. It is against the law. "




Anna d. wrote on Sep 27, 2008 8:44 AM:

" Research by Karyn Model found that states with marijuana decrim had lower overall drug abuse rates than others; another study by Frank Chaloupka found decrim states have lower accident rates too[17] In Alaska, accident rates held constant or declined following the legalization of personal use of marijuana[18] In Holland, authorities believe that cannabis has contributed to an overall decline in opiate abuse. Recent government statistics showed that the highest rates of cocaine abuse in the West were in Nevada and Arizona, the states with the toughest marijuana laws "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 27, 2008 8:05 AM:

" "Crazy Ideas". Which ideas would that be? Why "enough"? You don't have to come here and read this. If we are 'offending' your ideas about religion, then you'd better take a GOOD look at yours. If we are 'offending' because we say that cannabis is our sacrament, how is that any crazier than reenactments of psuedo-cannabalizm?
If i caught my kids playing cannibal, i'd be horrified, but some promote that every week in church. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 26, 2008 11:00 PM:

" Hemp Me said that cannabis is not a spiritual____. How would you be able to determine anyone else's spiritual/religious experience? "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 26, 2008 10:31 PM:

" Like i said, it doesn't look like that prison thing is working for ya. The more that you tell me about your prisons, the less that i believe that they are an answer to anything. How did your California insurance search go? "




Russ wrote on Sep 26, 2008 4:47 PM:

" Hemp.. My disagreement have always revolved the use of an illegal substance first and then deciding to go shopping for something to legitimize it later. The use of MMJ is intrfging. However, for every study to support you can find a study against. I would love to see a significant amount of quality studies come out that are neither biased by NORML or the DEA. I would also love to see the COC scholars quote something more relevant and recent than 35 years ago. "




TO THE COURIER wrote on Sep 26, 2008 4:13 PM:

" PLEASE STOP THIS NONSENSE! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH OF THEM PUTTING FORTH THEIR CRAZY IDEAS. "




jodis wrote on Sep 26, 2008 1:26 PM:

" Reality Check, let me "hemp" you. Actually cannibas has proven to not cure, but reduce cancer symptoms and other ailments. In addition, it also aids in promoting creativity. It has been and will be a calming herb, that allows an individual to relax and slow down in the fast paced world. If abused, it could cause behavioral issues, just like any other herb, drug, food or drink.

I enjoy reading your logic, which is understandable. "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 26, 2008 10:34 AM:

" Hemp Me,

I'm not trying to say that Alcohol is better than Marijuana. If it were up to me, DUI should have a higher penalty than they currently have. If Alcohol was outlawed, it would not change my life one bit.

What I am trying to say is that there is no positive use for Marijuana. People claim it has medical purposes for cancer patients, yet the American Cancer Society doesn't even recognize it.

It is illegal to use, and until the potsmokers band together to change that law, they should obey it. "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 25, 2008 7:02 PM:

" Anna D,

Sorry, Pot smokers and "Haoma Ritualists" like you are the only ones denying the adverse effects of Marijuana. Motor skills are impared like alcohol does, and the effects of Marijuana last longer from a single "High".

Here are some studies for you.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/09/25/20080925inmates0925.html

37 percent of inmates tested positive for marijuana

Male violent offenders were more likely than female offenders to test positive for marijuana

urinalysis results showed higher rates of drug use among those diagnosed with a mental illness than in those not diagnosed with a mental illness "




HEMP ME wrote on Sep 25, 2008 4:54 PM:

" Seriously? All of you, seriously? Marajuana is not the gateway drug that the right-wing fasciest radical bible-thumping beer-guzzling, wife-beating racists claim it to be. And it isn't the spiritual gateway to godliness the left wing wack job hippy flower power beatnicks claim it to be. It is a useful medicine. It is a recreational drug. There is not a lethal dose(can't-overdose). Alcohol is more of a gateway drug. I would like russ to give reasons against it that do not mirror the effects of alcohol, which does have a lethal dose. By-the-way, I am not a user of marijuanna. So-don't-come-back-calling-me-names-like-hippy-or-whatever-cause-i'm-sure-there-are-some-names-that-could-be-made-of-you. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 25, 2008 12:50 PM:

" I am curious about what the statistics are for those mmj users in the med states. Certainly the insurance companies have facts and figures and odds that are accurate? They would be able to give you a good idea of the ACTUAL stats on safety of mj users who drive, i'd think. They've had years to observe mj drivers and gather that info.
I'm assuming that if the info was negative, that the govt would be spreading that info far and wide. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 25, 2008 12:39 PM:

" I just have to wonder why its okay to be loaded on super caffeine drinks and drive. Are there warning labels about driving on caffeine and sugar? talk about a recipe for road rage.
Check out the NORML site for some of the road study info. "




Russ wrote on Sep 24, 2008 9:13 PM:

" Please Daniel you throw studies out there like we are supposed to accept them unconditionally, yet you provide no citations. Can you provide them? "




ecdj wrote on Sep 24, 2008 5:28 PM:

" while we're on the subject of the 70's, in the early 70's just before nixon created a standing army with-in our boarders to attack our citizens in their homes which he loving call the DEA, there was a study done on the reaction time of someone on marijuana as opposed to someone with influenza (the flu). The person with the flu had a reaction time of 60% of someone on marijuana. Have you ever driven while suffering with the flu? Probably not, you don't feel much like driving, same thing with marijuana only you feel much, much better. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 24, 2008 4:48 PM:

" yes some do drive some don't, some are old some are young, what is the point? The assumption that marijuana impairs one's ablitiy to drive a car safely is an outright falsity! excuse me but that is bull. If one gets to the point that one can-not safely operate something they at that point will not attempt it. Marijuana doesn't make you stupid like other legal substances and that is why you don't hear allot about people getting in car crashs because they were on marijuana. For every study saying different there are ten that would agree with me. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 24, 2008 4:09 PM:

" Most folks only practice their religion from within their own homes. (This is in accordance with traditional Zoroastrian's having three holy types of fires, home, village, and then 'specific' other village's holy fires.) The C.O.C. does not mandate any holy pilgrimages, so most folks quietly practice from home. The informational centers are sources of information. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 24, 2008 2:26 PM:

" Many members of the church do not drive. Many are, what i hate to use the term 'elderly homebodies'. that's pretty close to average, from what i've seen. Do you understand the 3 types of Zoroastrian fires? But, the monasteries are spread across the nation, and i'm sure that the 'socialization' aspects of certain areas vary, just as with different denominations of the more mainstream churches. Younger generation folks don't seem to be as interested in the C.O.C.as you might think. I'm happy with keeping it like that. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 24, 2008 2:25 PM:

" also it may be note worthy that alcohol and marijuana are not comparable to each other. when someone is under the influence of marijuana the marijuana will tell them not to drive a car. on the other hand when someone has been drinking alcohol they often feel it's a good time to drive around looking for excitement. Marijuana is commonly used to broaden one's out look on life while alcohol appears to put blinders on a persons perceptions while impairing their motor skills. These two substances are different in everyway. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 24, 2008 1:56 PM:

" in the 70's there were an estimated 30 million marijuana users in the U.S. and that number has grown. There are tens of thousands of DUI arrests every year, what percentage of these do you suppose are for driving while under the influence of marijuana alone? that number would be less then one tenth of one percent, if any. So, I would think you'd be more fearful of people driving while texting then using our sacrament. By the way we also discourage our members and children from using alcohol and tobacco. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 24, 2008 1:35 PM:

" we are not the judging kind, we would not criticise the whole barrel/church because of a few bad apples/priests therein. please do not judge our church unfairly because of one worm who crawled into our barrel, who asked for the help of our church and who sought to spoil the batch at the request of the DEA to save himself. thank you. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 24, 2008 1:06 PM:

" thank you for any kindness you've shown towards us however your arguement is flawed. You suggest that if marijuana were legalized people would claim religion with hidden bad intentions? Catholicism is a recognized religion, do you suppose some sick'os may join that church to hide their sexual urges for children? Isn't that illegal? haven't some of these priests been put in jail for that? Should we put all catholics in jail for what these few have done? Of couse not. So which is worst, smoking marijuana and laughing at dumb things or molesting children? We (the coc) create no victim! "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 24, 2008 12:52 PM:

" Just thought of something. Do all the members walk to any church service where "Haoma" is used? I wouldn't want them to get a DUI for driving home from Church. That would be another law that is broken if caught. It is illegal to drive under the influence of an intoxicating substance. Even if that substance is "Haoma" "




ecdj wrote on Sep 24, 2008 12:40 PM:

" answering your question "was there any tracking of the sacrament being obtained and/or distributed?" Yes of the tracking and obtaining but only by the DEA. as to it's distribution, NO.
Our religious practice is not a buisness, we make no money from it. That is why we qualify (we seek not the wealth of this world) for a public defender. During E.C.Dan&Mary's detention a warrent was issued to search their monestary for money, large amounts of sacrament and records of sells. None exist thus none were found. does that answer you question? Marijuana is Harmless, can we all say harmless? "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 24, 2008 12:05 PM:

" To Anna D and ECDJ,

I'm sorry that my words have been heated and derrogatory, but I do not agree with your church. I do not condone Illegal Drug use. Watching lives get torn apart and witnessing the crime that goes hand in hand with drug use is what has made my mind for me. You both seem to be sincere, but you have to admit that if Marijuana is legalized for Religious use, there will instantly be new formed churches just to distribute Marijuana and to hide other bad intentions. "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 24, 2008 11:55 AM:

" Let me clarify my stance. I am against illegal drug use of any kind. If the government were to decide to legalize Marijuana, it would still be something that I would never use and I would teach my children not use it. Just as I don't drink or smoke and I teach my children that both of those activities, while legal, are still bad choices.

Do I agree with Medical Marijuana Use? Doctors currently can't decide so I say NO. And so does the American Cancer Society. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 24, 2008 11:27 AM:

" our Church affairs are just that, our affairs not yours! Our church has not sold one seed to anyone. The DEA with all it's snitches and undercover agents were unable to buy any sacrament whatsoever from our church, why? because we don't sell marijuana! No money was found at the time of our founders abduction, why? the marijuana was a donation by one of our churches monestaries that's why. The entire case against our church is based solely on "what if's" aka mind readers and absent of any evidence or facts our sacrament would ever enter commerce. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 24, 2008 11:15 AM:

" Reality Check, that was a very good question. I don't know the answer, but i do know that ANY records of any religious transfer could probably be used against the church and/or members in a court of law. In fact, we were warned by a defense lawyer right at the NM courthouse,that any type of religious logs could be used as evidence against church members. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 24, 2008 11:05 AM:

" when the scheduling of marijuana is finally corrected threequarters of office personnel and field agents of the DEA will not be needed and will be layed off. That's really not a large number when you compare it to the tens of thousands of prisoners being held illegally/fraudulently. In 71 years of putting people in jail for using marijuana the government has yet to produce "one victim" aka injury or death resulting from it's use. What are the American People being protected from? the treatment for depression? the cure for cancer? free thinking? what? where is the victim? none exist. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 24, 2008 10:32 AM:

" aloha to all. Russ, you stated that you don't believe in our churches 1st Ammendment rights and arguement and then you turn around and say you never once attacked our religion? Let me try to explain something to you, if you don't believe we of the CoC should have equal rights and exemptions with other churches (like the peoyote church does) that's one thing, however, when you are vocal about that belief in an open forum as you have been here then that projection is an attack on our religion and our beliefs. can you see that? "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 24, 2008 9:19 AM:

" Here is another question.

Is there a tracking of amounts of "Herb" that is obtained and a distribution of those amounts?

I ask because in this case, we have Dan and Mary arrested for over 300 lbs (Both vehicles combined). Is there a ledger stating that so much was used on so and so day? Because it would be pretty convenient to be able to claim you are transporting for the religion when you are caught, but there is no tracking that the Marijuana was actually used for Religious ceremonies. "




Russ wrote on Sep 23, 2008 10:47 PM:

" Daniel, I stated my reasons for not believing the @uaintainces first amendment arguments. Never once did I attack your religion, or anybody elses. Anna provided helpful information but in the end I still believe the judge was right. If that bothers you my friend may I suggest that you get over it. Dan, Mary and Dennis know who I am. Istill believe the potential sentence is to harsh. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 23, 2008 10:04 PM:

" do you know what I think? the blindfold on lady justice,well she's not blind she's embarrassed. Here's a reality check, congress usually writes the laws and regulations in America though the voters of a state can change a law too. Congress charged the DEA with moving substances around in their scheduling when-ever warrented. In 1996 marijuana became recognized by california as a medicine which disqualified marijuana as a schedule I. Realizing that they (the dea) would have to lay off about threequarters of their agents were marijuana moved they opted to continue putting people in jail rather then rescheduling it. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 23, 2008 9:12 PM:

" REality Check, you are also not seeing Haoma getting to hospices, either, are you? You see what you want to see. I see a much better picture from my position. I've had nursing home pros cuss me out for not letting them know years ago about my beliefs in Haoma, after they'd exhaused every avenue they knew of to get Haoma to those with MS, etc. You strike me as being very uncompassionate, but then i don't know you and you certainly don't know me or the church. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 23, 2008 9:03 PM:

" Reality Check, you know, the medical states are not seeing this 'gateway' theory of yours in their mmj folks. Why is it that you are seeing it in the prison industry? Are prisons not only NOT rehabilitating folks, but actually causing harm?
About Kripner's record: the prison system's failure to rehabilitate him, now that is a shame. He's lied to the church, he's lied to the judge. Well, what can i say. She chose to believe him over any other church member or even Pruitt's or Mack's testimonies. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 23, 2008 7:57 PM:

" I think reality check is lying (just kidding)about being Kripner, I think reality check is in fact a member of the organization who acted as lawenforcement and who under the color of law committed a hate crime against a recognized religious organization in these United States. Our religious rights don't have to be approvable to you reality check, or Fred or frm catholic or Russ but they must and will be recognized by our government. Ahura Mazda/God has called our hearts to praises and we refuse to lower our standards to please or validate you or your limitations. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 23, 2008 4:56 PM:

" Oh PLEASE don't pray for me. I like my soul where it is. Do you want me to pray for you? "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 23, 2008 4:56 PM:

" With that said, my problem is that i have witnessed first hand the progression of someone moving from the "Gateway Drug" of Marijuana to other more potent illegal substances. Every Pot user may not use Meth, but nearly every Meth user has used (or still uses) Marijuana.

And because of this, when I see your church, which is caught transporting Marijuana across state lines, using a convicted criminal as a "Authorized Transport Agent", I just see more drug addicts getting their vices fed. Not a church hauling thier sacrament. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 23, 2008 4:54 PM:

" Reality Check said:But in the COC's idea, instead of asking for forgiveness, they "Adjust" the religion to fit their current vices. ... the read a religios text, they change said religious beliefs to fit with their habit, and create a (fill in the blank! -A.D.) ideology. "
Reality Check, that sounds like the scenario of most christian chruches' creations. You will have to do better. "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 23, 2008 4:51 PM:

" ecdj,

I promise you, I'm not Mr Kripner. And I will not be giving my name on a message board. My reverend reference is from the Articles I have recently read about your branch of the COC in Hawaii.

I admit, I know very little about your religious texts, and your church. But from what I have read so far, I believe that your beliefs are wrong. You obviously don't need me to believe it either. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 23, 2008 4:46 PM:

" I don't know of anyone who would join the church just so that they could 'smoke pot'. If anything, joining the church,and being open about it, is certainly NOT conducive to 'smoking pot'. ..and i TELL that to anyone who is interested in joining the church. and still they will join the church. I cannot explain it any better than by saying that WE ARE SINCERE! you may not agree, but we are hurting nobody and we have a right to our religion and its expression. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 23, 2008 4:17 PM:

" if I could speak with T.Kripner i'd tell him he will never be harmed by any member of our church. It is a sad thing indeed on his eternal spirit what he's done by fabricating events and motives as he did. We understand now that he is mentally and morally challenged do to an early brain injury as a kid. funny how his story changed everytime he told it. I can hear his interview now,D.E.A. Q. what about 100,000? his answer uh, yah,that's right, it's all coming back to me now after a few weeks. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 23, 2008 3:56 PM:

" believe me reality check I am who and where I say, yes i'm crazy but I am not afraid to be who I am. If in fact you are T.Kripner (which you've just said would be crazy to post) then I doubt you've been getting alot of "Mr." down there in P.C. I haven't claimed to be a "reverend" of the CoC in years, if you don't know what an E.C. is then you didn't pay much attention. Question;after selling pot to our church for years were you on crack/meth when you called and begged to join the church? "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 23, 2008 3:55 PM:

" I feel sorry for you that a drug has such a hold on you that you need to "Escape" reality to deal with your life. I'm sorry that you have to turn to mind altering drugs to cope. I'm sorry you had to seek out a group of fellow users and claim your common vice is a religion. I wish you had something in your life that was worth staying "Clear Headed" for. Take solice in knowing there are an unknown number of people praying for you. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 23, 2008 3:51 PM:

" I've never gotten drunk on Haoma and fallen down puking with church members. Just WHAT ideas do you have floating around in that head of yours? "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 23, 2008 3:48 PM:

" Anna D,

I don't see how you think I am afraid of something.

Jesus taught to be forgiven you must ask for forgiveness. That means the Budhist that used to drink, comes to church, prays for forgiveness, takes the sacrament and is forgiven. But his/her prayers have to be sincere.

But in the COC's idea, instead of asking for forgiveness, they "Adjust" the religion to fit their current vices. They smoke pot, the read a religios text, they change said religious beliefs to fit with their habit, and create a "Neo-Zoroastrian" ideology. "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 23, 2008 3:39 PM:

" "If someone uses alcohol before becoming a christian, does that prove that he is insincere?"

No, because he "Should" admit that drinking to drunkenness is a sin. But if that same person decides to make the Church of Alcohol where a bunch of alcoholics gather and drink until they are puking, that isn't a church. It is an excuse to drink by trying to claim it is religion. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 23, 2008 3:02 PM:

" had a buddhist friend remark that Reality Check's logic is certainly flawed. "So this buddhist walks into a christian church and is converted. If the buddhist had ever drank alcohol prior to this conversion, it means that the christian church is fake?"
Who says that god doesn't like us inhaling herbs? My god doesn't mind. Why is the C.O.C.'s beliefs affecting Reality Check like this? What is RC afraid of? "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 23, 2008 1:59 PM:

" Some of us may have read a bible and had our ideas about what god thinks of incense and the tree of life. Perhaps even BEFORE we tried cannabis. Not all members of the C.O.C. use cannabis in its incense form, the 'most nutritious for the soul' method is drinking the libation. But, i'm sure that isn't enough to heal you from your hippie bashing guilt complex. i think that there are psychiatric docs that help out cops with work-related problems, you know, like when they raid the wrong house and end up shooting innocents... "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 23, 2008 1:48 PM:

" Malachi 1:11
My name will be great among the nations, from the rising to the setting of the sun. In every place incense and pure offerings will be brought to my name, because my name will be great among the nations," says the LORD Almighty.
Luke 1:11
Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing at the right side of the altar of incense.
Revelation 8:4
The smoke of the incense, together with the prayers of the saints, went up before God from the angel's hand. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 23, 2008 1:35 PM:

" as we speak our congress is preparing to sell our economy to the Russians, Chinese and Arabs and in that process they will convert our democracy into a communist state so you hippie women get in that bathroom and shave those legs. The playing field between the haves and have-nots is about to be leveled friends because we have no product to sell on the world market anymore (except weapons and pharmacueticals)which means we can never pay off the debt so lets attack the hippies for not violating their conscience, wake up America and smell the flowers. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 23, 2008 1:34 PM:

" Reality Check,God enjoys the smell of incense, so the bible says. What do you think all those 'hand held' censers were all about? You and your 'proof' does not logic make. (I hope nobody you know joined a christian church, if they had drank alcohol prior to joining.)You come here with a preconcieved notion, but very little working knowledge of religion. I still think that you need some spiritual counselling...and education. You HAVE hurt hairy legged hippies before, haven't you? "




Fred wrote on Sep 23, 2008 1:23 PM:

" Hey you hippy, GOD made sex offenders also do you condone them? "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 23, 2008 1:20 PM:

" Reality check, i don't get your logic. If someone uses alcohol before becoming a christian, does that prove that he is insincere? Those folks who followed Jesus around that were won over by the healing....were they fakes?
Why are you so afraid of poppies, etc? For centuries people have grown and used these substances. So after thousands of years of humans evolving with these plants, NOW it is evil? SAYS WHO? The guys that dug the artifacts out of the temples say CANNABIS was used in ritual, not just the C.O.C. GET OVER IT "




ecdj wrote on Sep 23, 2008 1:01 PM:

" it appears that the "chair" at the U.N. meeting this morning stated of the U.S. that he hopes the next administration "doesn't have such a slow learning curve"! To convince the People to "allow" men to form a government to act on their collective behalf, first these men had to recognize to always observe that We the People possess what was known as an "inalienable" aka God Given right to never be forced by this new government to violate their own conscience. Now these men are trying to violate that pledge and inprison us, you support that? WOW "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 23, 2008 11:34 AM:

" "...because what they are doing is illegal, it's a hate crime."

Sorry, but saying your church is a farse is not a hate crime.

I will conceed that Marijuana is less potent compared to the damage that other drugs can cause. But just because you like to use a less hurtful drug does not give you the right to BREAK THE LAW.

And unfortunately, even though you don't believe it, MARIJUANA IS A GATEWAY DRUG. Not all pot heads use Meth, but nearly all Meth addicts have or still use Pot. "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 23, 2008 11:23 AM:

" ecdj,

And as for giving a name on a message board, you are Pretty insane to do so. Sorry if I tend to not believe you when you are posting messages and claiming to be a "Reverend" from a COC church in Hawaii.

Want me to give you a name, how about Timothy Kripner. Friends call me Tim but I would prefer you call me Mr. Kripner. It took an arrest for hauling their sacrament to realise their lies. Now I can actually turn my life around." "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 23, 2008 11:02 AM:

" "...they cannot accept that god made cannabis"

I can accept it. Just as I accept that god made Poppies, and Cocoa leaves and "Ephedra". God made Hops and Barley, and tobacco.

Just because god made marijuana does not make it righteous to smoke and inhale the fumes.

You may cite the righteous tennants of Zoroastrian beliefs, but that does not give truth to your idea that Marijuana is Haoma.

The fact that most (if not all) of your members smoked pot before joining is proof the church is fake. "




Fred wrote on Sep 23, 2008 10:50 AM:

" Het ecdj, you dont have a faith, you have an addiction. Hippy. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 23, 2008 10:38 AM:

" if on the other hand you Russ like say Cher or Bono or Ringo are known by only Russ and that Russ is the only name on your drivers licence excuse me for not knowing that, however if that is not the case then my last name is Jeffrey, what's yours? What's Reality Check's, Fred and frm catholic's? I find it interesting that you can throw mud on our faith and beliefs and then turn around and say lets be civil. You have not been civil to us but rather insulting actually, didn't you know that? We sure did! "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 23, 2008 10:23 AM:

" My opinion is that they could NOT find a compelling interest, no harm. But the leo/govt agencies were already up to their necks and refused to lose face. Rather than ADMIT that no harm had happened from a church possessing sacramental Haoma/cannabis, the court did what it could not do 'legally', hoping that the defendants would just roll over and let themselves be had. These 'law enforcement' commentors are probably ones that were in on the monastery raid, coming here to rub salt into wounds. Let the appeals begin. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 23, 2008 10:13 AM:

" Aloha Russ, so you've been civil? excuse me but is that what you call this? Fred wrote on Sep 20, 2008 10:15 PM: " Blessings to the Cardinals, may they beat the Redskins. And may the Diamondbacks win a world series again. Please convert Allen Iverson to a COC lover, so he can get kicked out of the NBA. Praise all that is holy and not of hemp." I don't call that civil and the name Russ doesn't exactly tell anybody who you are. "




The Supreme Court wrote on Sep 23, 2008 8:41 AM:

" Under the 1st Amendment, the people are free to believe whatever they choose to believe. Belief cannot be regulated by law. On the other hand actions may be regulated. However, before government may burden a persons actions, courts must apply strict scrutiny of the reason for preventing a practice, and whether least restrictive means are being used to assure a given practice does no harm to others. In this case government was not made to show a reason. Because, the court ignored the rules and decided the belief was not a valid belief warranting protection. "




Russ wrote on Sep 22, 2008 10:27 PM:

" I am sorry Daniel. I thought I expressed who I was. My name is Russ and no I do not agree with your arguments bazsed upon the first amendment. Please do not be rude to me as I do not believe I have been rude to you. We can disagree civily. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 22, 2008 9:20 PM:

" ECDJ, they cannot accept that god made cannabis, you can't get them to say that god is more important than the almighty DEA. Their hearts are hardened. I don't know if they can make it over the bridge at the end of this lifetime. I fear for their souls. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 22, 2008 8:48 PM:

" if the nay sayers here won't stand up proudly for what they believe and give their names and their hidden interest in this subject how can they be believed in anything they say? They can't! They aren't real people or opinions, they are just the same chichen little types (the sky is falling)pretending to care about something other then themselves when in fact they obviously don't. If I were a criminal and they were the saints then why are they hidding their identity while I am not? answer, because what they are doing is illegal, it's a hate crime. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 22, 2008 8:43 PM:

" REality check, God made cannabis and said that it was GOOD. WHO did you say is defying god? If god made cannabis, wouldn't that make him/her the FIRST POTHEAD? If god is everywhere, that would make him/her in cannabis, right? So what is wrong with seeing god in cannabis? WHO has poisoned your mind? "




ecdj wrote on Sep 22, 2008 8:08 PM:

" well, a brand new authority on zoroastrianism here to teach the zoroastrians, how nice. I have given you my name, I am under no indictment nor do I face any charges yet dispite the fact that marijuana is falsely believed to be illegal I am honest and outspoken about my truth here. You Reality Check, Fred, Russ and frm catholic are not so brave, you hide in the shadows while displaying the only courage you can mustard, the bravery of anonymity, why? If you truely believe the lies you spew about us why not give us your true names? "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 22, 2008 8:05 PM:

" Toxic chemical? You mean CANNABIS? ... that a federal judge has already said is one of the safest theraputic substances known to man? The war that you wage on it is more dangerous, by far. STOP lying. "




Inquiring minds want to know wrote on Sep 22, 2008 6:22 PM:

" Reality Check -- What's the difference between a "Church" and a "Religion"? It would help us sort out if there is a difference that could explain the difference in beliefs between the churches. Sort of like the difference between Methodist, Baptist, Catholics, Mormons, etc., etc., that all claim to be Christian! "




Inquiring minds want to know wrote on Sep 22, 2008 6:17 PM:

" Reality Check -- You appear to be an expert on Zar-aster and this religion. Could you tell us what the difference is between Irani and Parsi Zoroastrians? Which of the 3 primary calendars of the Zoroastrians is the correct calendar? Where in the scriptures of the Avesta is Haoma most talked about?
Do you really have to practice incest to be a Zoroastrian (only marry other zoroastrians)? How did Zoroastrianism start if not through incest, if only those born in Zoroastrianism can be members?
Where in the Avesta does it say how a person can declare themselves a member? "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 22, 2008 6:06 PM:

" RealityCheck, recheck that 'worship fire' comment. Get it right or you cannot be an expert on Zoroastrianism anymore. Use of cannabis for spiritual purposes has gone on for thousands of years. The C.O.C. has been around longer than many churches. New churches pop up all the time. The C.O.C. is not the first church to recognize cannabis sacrament. Not all Zoroastrians accept the Hom Yasht 'chapters' in their tenets. Most do, but most admit that they don't know what the 'original' Haoma was. The C.O.C.,some archeologists and scholars believe Haoma is cannabis. Get over it. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 22, 2008 5:45 PM:

" God made cannabis and said that it is GOOD. WHO would say that it is NOT?
Come on, reality check, WHO? Neither YOU nor the judges nor the dea will convince me that I am insincere, nor that the church is insincere. Are you sure that you aren't here arguing in order to justify to yourself, the way that you treat other human beings? Is your conscience crying out for help/forgiveness? Have you hurt a dirty hairylegged hippy before? Do you need spiritual counselling? "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 22, 2008 4:39 PM:

" Anna D,
"In my religion nobody needs to die for anybody else... and we can still attain paradise. WHAT A CONCEPT!"

Your religion has been around for 17 years (1991). And now the founder's of the church are going to jail. Sounds like your religion is gonna disappear because it was a farse to try to smoke pot and call it religion.

And don't go trying to say your religion is thousands of years old. Zoroastrianism is thousands of years old, they worship fire, not Marijuana and they don't let converts into their church. "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 22, 2008 4:32 PM:

" ecdj,

Sorry, but smoking a toxic chemical to trick your brain into feeling euphoric is not "Evolving Spiritualy". It is using drugs to escape REALITY!!! People who are truely spiritual do not need mind altering drugs to "Worship" god.

As for loving your fellow man, good for you, but you need to stop feeding other people's vices by falsely saying it is good for you.

In the end, you all will find out that you have spent your life defying god just to be a pothead. "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 22, 2008 3:53 PM:

" ecdj,
"you sense that you just may be less evolved spiritually and intellecually than others around you and it makes you mad."

Sorry, wrong again. I have witnessed first hand how a person goes from the occasional pot smoker to other harder drugs. I have seen meth addicts that tried Meth one time because they were out of Pot and it was cheaper. It's funny, but even in this church, you can't separate the criminal element from the drug user. Even the Church's transport agent had prior convictions for other than Pot Possession. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 22, 2008 2:51 PM:

" we have love and compassion for you Reality Check and all your friends, you are angry rightfully so, you sense that you just may be less evolved spiritually and intellecually than others around you and it makes you mad. If these others are right then you're wrong and the thoughts more then you can bare so strike out at the peaceful people and you'll be bigger for it, you've really thought this out haven't you. The truth is we as love can-not proceed without you, were we to though the absence of love in your world would destroy it. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 22, 2008 2:28 PM:

" In my religion nobody needs to die for anybody else... and we can still attain paradise. WHAT A CONCEPT! "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 22, 2008 2:23 PM:

" In the Hom Yasht, the spirit of Haoma comes to Zoroaster, asking that Haoma's religion be promoted. Zoroaster asked what Haoma wanted. Haoma said that we are to pray to Haoma, prepare the drink, and praise Haoma loud enough that others might hear. Zoroaster was praying before a fire. Do you actually expect all other religions to follow YOUR prophet and YOUR ideas about sin? Remember, you ARE in America where freedom of religion is a FIRST. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 22, 2008 1:29 PM:

" reality check, it is NOT a sin. God made it, said it is good. WHO would say that it is not good? "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 22, 2008 12:12 PM:

" ecdj,
"Every christian is taught that it is because Jesus died for the sins of this world, that all sins may be forgiven."

But to be forgiven, you have to admit to your sins and ask for forgiveness. Unlike the COC, if a christian is a pot smoker, if they admit to it and stop doing it, they can be forgiven. But the COC refuses to admit that using a DRUG is a sin. They went so far as to actually change an existing religion into the Marijuana Church. "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 22, 2008 12:04 PM:

" ecdj,
"You see We make a drink from the seeds and flowers of this plant which is called Haoma and is a complete meal"

Then explain Dan's picture on his web site where he is obviously lighting up and smiling. (It is next to his mission statement).

Like I said, don't appear to be a pot head and people probably might consider the idea that you are not a pot head. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 22, 2008 11:06 AM:

" it is true that we of the Church of Cognizance smoke marijuana religiously however for us, smoking it could be compared with having a stick of beefjerky rather then a rumproast. You see We make a drink from the seeds and flowers of this plant which is called Haoma and is a complete meal. We do-not wish to get stoned out of our minds but rather only closer to the joy which it offers us. If finding personal joy is a crime in the U.S. then we're misjudged the very spirit of America, I pray that is not true. "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 22, 2008 10:58 AM:

" Anna D,
"No, let me guess, you'll resort to the standard 'intelligent' "hippies" comment."

Have you actually looked at Dan and Mary's web site?

Let's just say that if you want to convince people you are not just hippies wishing to legalize your drug preference, you should SPELL CHECK YOUR MISSION STATEMENT!!!

I mean, how can you expect to convince people that you have studied the true plant that is referenced as Haoma and comprehend ancient religious texts on the subject if you can't write a mission statement without multiple "VIOLANCE" and "EXCIST" references. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 22, 2008 10:30 AM:

" Aloha to All. following this thread i'm reminded of my early Christian teachings. Every christian is taught that it is because Jesus died for the sins of this world, that all sins may be forgiven. Jesus did'nt force himself on the people (kick in the door with a gun)and placed a rule on salvation to protect that plan. He put it onto the individual (seek and you shall find)to make up their own mind. What is it that allows/directs someone to "seek" and "find" this salvation? GRACE! yes, it is by Grace they are saved, try it. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 22, 2008 8:17 AM:

" I AM, some of these are people with the same type of bloodlust that did in that hippy Jesus, his cuz John the Baptizer, Stephen, James the Just, etc. Yup,slide these guys back in time, you'd catch them jeering that hippy Jesus on his way to the cross, throwing stones, tossing people out of towers,lopping headsand/or imprisoning. My question, in our religion, do we need to forgive them? I know, they get their sins declared forgeven every sunday, but they go on and sin again. I think that they are repeat offenders. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 22, 2008 7:55 AM:

" So...what happens when the dea is busted for everyting it has done in the past 12 years, in the name of their holy 'schedule 1' substance law? What will you guys say then? No, let me guess, you'll resort to the standard 'intelligent' "hippies" comment. So? Hippies have as much right to choosing their religion as YOU do. We believe that Haoma is cannabis. We believe that Haoma IS the way to peace on earth, goodwill to men, overcoming evil, and extending life, among other holy benefits. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 22, 2008 7:47 AM:

" Once AGAIN! THe dea has been ILLEGALLY busting people for mj as a schedule 1 substance for 12 years!!!! They were told by the attny general to keep the schedules current. Congress set the csa up, so that VOTING need not be done to change scheduling on any of those substances. Other substances have been changed around,even the bastardized pill form of cannabis. Alcohol was prohibited, but was 'allowed'. Is govt perferring one religon over another? What is this 'compelling interest'? Just GREED? "




I am wrote on Sep 22, 2008 6:43 AM:

" Fmr Catholic, Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; for it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.” So then each of us will give an account of himself to God. Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. (Romans 14:10-13) "




I am wrote on Sep 21, 2008 10:25 PM:

" Good -- If I made a living off the prison industry system I would probably feel as you do. The more inmates the better! How much do you think it has cost the American people to support you and your type? How much longer can the American economy support such ignorance? Are you proud of the fact we have more prisoners, mostly non-violent, than China, Russia, or any other industrialized Nation? I remember guards in another country between 1933 to 1945 that also went after an easily identified class of people. Remember what happened those fanatics? "




Fmr Catholic wrote on Sep 21, 2008 9:28 PM:

" Too bad, too sad! Work on trying to get pot legal by writing your political reps or lobbying or something, not hiding out in some bogus "church" to evade taxes and the law. This is America, you have the right to speak up to your elected officials and make changes. Writing on the comments page of the EAC about how righteous the COC is will get you no where! "




jodis wrote on Sep 21, 2008 9:28 PM:

" Fred... please provide the definition of hippy? Furthermore, us so called hippies seem substancially more educated than you. You poor soul, your grammar sucks, you can't spell and a few hundred posts ago, you said you didn't want to be on here. I think you should start your own post about SPORTS. You are a loon. "




Fmr Catholic wrote on Sep 21, 2008 9:22 PM:

" So I guess the only "educated" people are COC members? Maybe an education on the subject can be derived from other sources than the COC. Maybe some of us have experimented many, MANY years ago and know what tripping out is all about. Yeah, I'm not afraid to admit it! Did you ever think of that? And let me tell you, it is NOT about God or clarity! No, I'm not for keeping pot illegal--to each his own rope--but if you abuse the system, you're gonna get taken down eventually. "




Good wrote on Sep 21, 2008 3:43 PM:

" I was the first person to respond to this article and like I said: You losers can justify it all you want, but deep down you know that smoking dope is wrong. I knew all you pot heads would get on here with all your grammatical errors and sloppy articulation to defend it. You're addicted to it! It controls you! If I was a slave to something, I would stand up and shout, and justify it just as you are. Go to the Prisons and ask all the inmates how many of them started out just smoking a little pot. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 21, 2008 12:49 PM:

" our congress created strict definitions on the scheduling of would-be controlled substances. Of the substances which are in a schedule and that come from a plant (most are), marijuana has been singled out from Ephedra,Opium Poppies,Coca,Peyote and others, why? Because of the very large number of marijuana users (more then all the others combined)the prohibition aka criminalization of it's use creates a large profit/income for our courts (state and fed.),lawenforcement aka prison system (state and fed.), lawyers/public defenders (state and fed.)stockbrokers, medical doctors/pharacueticals manufacturers ect. Everybodies getting paid well at the expence of the most peaceful among us. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 21, 2008 11:20 AM:

" if you were to ask a policeman if the marijuana laws seemed fair usually they will say "we don't write the laws or even understand them, we only enforce them/do what we're told. If you go to the Chief of Police you'll get the same answer and you'll continue to get that answer all the way to the Supreme Court of America. The weak link in our democracy is our Congess who has hedged and hawed on this subject disreguarding all science and medical studies to further their profits gained by a war on the peaceful citizens. hate crime. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 21, 2008 11:07 AM:

" Some bibles' covers were even made from human skin....the most collectable were the ones that had the navel placed right under the words "Holy Bible". This i learned from an antiques collector, who had some lampshades, soap, and pipes made from human remains. They weren't for sale, just placed in a case for educational purposes. It was quite an educational lesson for me. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 21, 2008 11:03 AM:

" I would give Fred (if that's his name) time to respond but alas he will not! I understand why, he is in the minority on the subject of about 29% of our population which would denigh sick and dying people a non-toxic organic method of relief. Sadly it appears it is this minority which has jockied themselves into positions of authority be that heading all three branches of our government, our govenor's/media/clergy, our mayor's/county councle/chief's of police on right down to good old Fred if that's his name. Who has a plan for peace? NONE! just more prisons. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 21, 2008 9:25 AM:

" Aloha to All. I think it's totally understandable that Fred hates marijuana and praises the prohibition on it. He doesn't seem to be to educated on the subject and refuses to want to change that situation. It's clear to me that if it were not for the prohibition on marijuana Fred would probably be lucky to get a job driving a golf-cart around in a wal-mart parking lot. Everybodies opinion is welcome in America Fred it's just that yours is obviously of little if any value to free thinking people. So, take pride that you are so un-hip or loving. "




hippie cluck wrote on Sep 21, 2008 8:46 AM:

" Fredneck, Fredneck, Fredneck. Puberty can be tough, but maybe you should think about how your mommy will feel when she finds out that you have been abusing the C.O.C. in public like this. If you keep dragging it through the dirt, eventually your hands will become as dirty as your mouth. "




Russ wrote on Sep 21, 2008 8:27 AM:

" Facts- Seems they do test and with some harsh penalties "




Russ wrote on Sep 21, 2008 8:22 AM:

" Whether they test for it I dont know but the NBA considers marijuana an illegal substance too "Facts for All" "




Fred wrote on Sep 20, 2008 11:48 PM:

" Here is another fact, your a hippy. "




Facts for all wrote on Sep 20, 2008 11:12 PM:

" Fred, I don't think they test for marijuana in the NBA. If they did they would probably lose 80 percent of their players! It is confusing when you talk about all that is holy and not hemp since most of the first bibles were printed on hemp paper, including the Gutenberg Bible. Oh yeah, and a little document called the Constitution of the United States. Without hemp you would most likely not be here as all of the ships from Columbus to WWII used a hemp canvas sail. In fact we get the word canvas from cannabis. Educate yourself! "




Fred wrote on Sep 20, 2008 10:15 PM:

" Blessings to the Cardinals, may they beat the Redskins. And may the Diamondbacks win a world series again. Please convert Allen Iverson to a COC lover, so he can get kicked out of the NBA. Praise all that is holy and not of hemp. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 20, 2008 8:47 PM:

" thank you "I am" for answering my question about the origins of the word pot. blessings to you and to all the good people. "




I am wrote on Sep 20, 2008 7:06 PM:

" [Origin: 1935–40, Americanism; said to be a shortening of MexSp potiguaya or potaguaya, appar. contr. of potación de guaya wine or brandy in which marijuana buds have been steeped (lit., drink of grief)]
Random House Unabridged Dictionary, 2006.
It is said the drink was provided at funerals as a soother of grief. Compare; "The herb was used in India in cultural and religious ceremonies, and recorded in Sanskrit scriptural texts around 1,400 B.C. Cannabis was considered a holy herb and was characterized as the "soother of grief," "the sky flyer," and "the poor man's heaven." "




Fred wrote on Sep 20, 2008 6:58 PM:

" To Anna,Jodis and all other hippies. I asked these qustions earlier but no one answered them. Have you always been part of the COC. Have you alweays liked COC and will you ever be anything but a COC? Glory to the ASU football team, may they come back from the 18 point defecit. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 20, 2008 1:34 PM:

" NO religious organization need sign on with the govt. The irs specifically states that. The ONLY reason that i can think of for churches to sign on with the govt is greed. What would be the reason for the govt BRIBING churches to sign on? Why would a govt want churches under their thumbs?
UNDER GOD, not equal to or above.
Give unto Caesar...would't that translate as:"Govts want their money back, give it to them. Dont' use it." i didn't notice god makin money in the creation story. But herbs were GOOD. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 20, 2008 12:33 PM:

" someone once said that the seperation of church and state must be up-held not to protect the church from the state but rather to protect the state from the church, there-in lies our problem. The prohibition on marijuana is based soley on the Rule of the Pope/Rome who has looked upon marijuana as his only spiritual competition from the early days of the churches founding. today there are catholic churches that support medical marijuana but sadly not so for the majority of catholic's in our congress and our courts. to support freedom just support pot. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 20, 2008 12:11 PM:

" speaking of "what defile a man" what do you think of these finacial institutions being bailed out by the taxpayers? what we are seeing again in our history is the banker robbing the bank. First the bankers moves/invests the money of the people/stockholders into futures/their own personal CEO accounts and borrowed money from abroad to back it up, then they move/invest that borrowed money into futures/their personal CEO accounts, then the Fed's rush in to save the day and give these crooks more money which they've borrowed from you to again invest in futures. give me pot! "




jodis wrote on Sep 20, 2008 11:38 AM:

" I Am, RIGHT ON! Every scripture that you have provided explains that "moderation" is the best medicine for all that is natural. Thanks for providing such positive truth. "




jodis wrote on Sep 20, 2008 11:35 AM:

" I cannot believe someone in this thread is actually quoting the Doctrine and Covenants, a Mormon book. Oh boy, the "unbelievers" of good will certainly run with this one. There is absolutely nothing in the D&C or Pearl of Great Price that is against cannabis (quotes); therefore, again leave the COC Church alone. The Mormons believe their thing, the COC's believe theirs. Both churches provide "good". Have you ever listened closely to the song, "Imagine" by John Lennon? If not, listen to it or pull up the lyrics and read them. Glory to John Lennon. Peace "




ecdj wrote on Sep 20, 2008 11:25 AM:

" Glory be, "I am" is on the scene. as I recall the "masters" of every faith refered to themselves at some point as "I ma" I mean "I am". They with wisdom and humanity would often say something like "I am but a simple monk/ man" meaning that the "I am" aka Mind of God dwells within a simple man. Jesus said "I am that I am" which to many was taking the mind of God in man to the next rung for us all, Welcome. do you happen to know where the term "pot" comes from? thanks "




I am wrote on Sep 20, 2008 8:40 AM:

" Mark 7:14-23 || Matthew 15:10-20
Do you not see that whatever goes into a man from outside cannot defile him, since it enters, not his heart but his stomach, and so passes on?” And he said, “What comes out of a man is what defiles a man. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, fornication, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a man” "




I am wrote on Sep 20, 2008 8:39 AM:

" (D&C 59:18-21) ..all things which come from the earth, ... are made for the benefit and use of man; both to please the eyes and to gladden the heart; Yea, for food and for rainment, for taste and for smell, to strengthen the body and to enliven the soul. And it pleaseth God that he hath given all these things unto man;...to be used, with judgment, not to excess, neither by extortion. And in nothing doth man offend God, or against none is his wrath kindled, save those who confess not his hand in all things . . . "




I am wrote on Sep 20, 2008 8:38 AM:

" (James 2:8) If you really fulfil the royal law, according to the scripture,"You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you do well.

(Proverbs 10:12) Hatred stirs up strife, but love covers all offenses.

(1 Peter 4:8) Above all hold unfailing your love for one another, since love covers a multitude of sins. "




I am wrote on Sep 20, 2008 8:37 AM:

" Galatians 5:14) For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

(Romans 13:8) Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.

(Romans 13:9)The commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this sentence, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

(Romans 13:10) Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 20, 2008 12:39 AM:

" ecdj,

"paying money to the private comany/mofia/irs wouldn't be the christian thing to do in my opinion"

Matthew 22 17-21
17) ...Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?
18) But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?
19) Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
20) And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?
21) They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's "




Dave wrote on Sep 19, 2008 8:23 PM:

" just what we need...more people in Jail for posessing a plant. i wonder how many Christians have to die from Alcohol, Cigarettes or LEGAL Pharmeceutical drugs before our government does something? they won't because it would take money out of their pockets. the war on Marijuana is apalling-shame on us. "




Fred wrote on Sep 19, 2008 5:53 PM:

" Herer is my question. How long have you been apart of the COC. Have you always liked COC. And will you ever be anything but a COC? "




ecdj wrote on Sep 19, 2008 5:35 PM:

" excuse me Reality Check your not a dumby, please allow me to talk a little sllloooowwwweerr so that what i'm saying doesn't go over your head again.
The scholars of the COC are "not" the Parsi, our scholars are the "keepers of the knowledge" of our church. We did not create Zoroastrianism, Haoma or the ancient practice of good thoughts, good words and good deeds, we only understand to practice and worship them correctly.
Marijuana "IS" the ancient Haoma of the Zoroastrians like it or not, that's up to you and the Parsi as well. "




jodis wrote on Sep 19, 2008 5:30 PM:

" Oh yes, and I "did" shave my legs this morning. I am a GIRL. I bet Fred doesn't wear cologne. Fred, there's some awesome HEMP deodorant and lotions that you can buy that will attract those ladies at Wallyworld. Poor Fred, you know you love reading our posts. "




jodis wrote on Sep 19, 2008 5:27 PM:

" ECDJ, thanks for the kind words. I truly believe that your church has a lot of good to offer. If you can change another person's life for the better, you deserve to lead your congregation respectively. I enjoy reading your rantings. :o) Fred and the ole boy bunch have no idea who they are really dealing with here. Your character shows that you are a very intelligent leader that is dedicated to a good cause. Peace be with you. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 19, 2008 5:12 PM:

" paying money to the private comany/mofia/irs wouldn't be the christian thing to do in my opinion Reality Check. They provide "no service" to me only the dis-service of trying the steal from the good people of America. We have not asked for the State/Government or IRS's permittion to pratice our religion just like we're not asking you for your's. We/I don't bow down to that false king as we/I have our Own Leader which is Haoma, and yet sadly it does appears that we/COC have been lowered to someone else's standards and level. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 19, 2008 4:49 PM:

" the fact was entered into this blog that Haoma is not recognized as cannabis by the Parsi of Zoroastrianism and that is true, we haven't denigh that yet allow me to give you an example of what that equates too. If you were able to talk to the Pope and you asked him, are the Baptists practicing a true form of Christianity, what do you think he'd say? He'd say NO! Does that make Baptists "satan worshippers"? according to the Pope, Yes! I hope your not a Baptist or a Lutherian or a Methodist Fred. "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 19, 2008 4:39 PM:

" As for me being the "Dumby", here you go. I referred to your Church Scholars. Dan and Mary founded an organization that was losely based on an existing religion called Zoroastrianism. The Scholars of Zoroastrianism believe that Marijuana is NOT Haoma. That Ephedra is Haoma. And that membership is something you are born into, not converted.

The COC was made up in 1991 by potheads to further their pot smoking agenda by claiming it was covered under the 1st amendment. The judge saw otherwise. "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 19, 2008 4:23 PM:

" One last question to the members/scholars of the COC. What does the church plan to do about the Tax ramifications?

If this Marijuana was purchased using church proceeds, which are given as a charitable deduction, there is a Big IRS problem for the church.

Or have they been acting as if they are not a church and not filing income statements as a tax free entity?

Because not claiming the tax free status is like admitting that they are not a real church. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 19, 2008 3:50 PM:

" aloha Jodis from hawaii, thank you for your compassion and please don't judge our church by my rantings. I am E.C.Daniel Jeffrey, one of five E.C. of the COC and effectionatly known by our church (I hope) as the "loose canon" so to speak as I lack the patience of the other four. We of the COC are well versed and study All of the religions of this world and we give high honors to those teachings which are not in conflict with "good thoughts, good words and good deeds" such as the teachings of Jesus Christ. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 19, 2008 2:47 PM:

" I find it interesting that while our Gov. has bailed out AIG, one of the largest finacial institutes in America, and even as we speak Congress is preparing to bail out a number of other banking institutions that I just haven't had the time to shave my legs. Oh that's right, i'm a man and we usually don't shave our legs, that slur must have only been directed at the women. anyway, do you know what they call it when the government owns the industries within it's own country? Communism/Socialism! ps just what is your job Fred? "




Fred wrote on Sep 19, 2008 2:23 PM:

" You hippies are a weird bunch, with all your love peace and chicken grease talk. Plese, dont refer to your fake, pagan place of which you do drugs as a church. Your fake religious books are nothing more than made up nonsense. Get a life and a job. "




jodis wrote on Sep 19, 2008 1:32 PM:

" Fred and Enough, if you didn't care, you would post and read. What hypocrites. Hilarious to say the least. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 19, 2008 12:17 PM:

" excuse me "Reality Check, you probably ment to say the scholars of our "Religion" didn't you. again i'd have to say, GET ONE! Neither You nor any of the other nay sayers here are authorities on Zoroastrianism after 30 minutes on the internet. Fred, as a neo-zoroastrian i'm compelled to practice "good thoughts, good words and good deeds" so if i've somehow insulted you (which you do a pretty good job of yourself) consider that I am a recovering pentecostal and still having some trouble not rebuking evil people when I come in contact with them/you. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 19, 2008 11:54 AM:

" to you Reality Check, get one! the "scholars of our church recognize Ephedra", wake up! you are talking to the "scholars of our church" dumby.
As far as things go with you "Fred", Jesus said "cast not your pearls before swine" you are the swine he was talking about. I am truly surprised you can even talk with the limited amount of brain cells your working with. It appears that there are a few in here that would prevent sick and dying people any margine of relief, twisted hateful people is all that you are. PEACE. "




Fred wrote on Sep 19, 2008 10:51 AM:

" NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! "




Enough wrote on Sep 19, 2008 7:57 AM:

" Does anyone other than the three people that keep blogging really care about this? "




jodis wrote on Sep 18, 2008 6:23 PM:

" GOGO get over yourself. For goodness sakes, these people have never hurt anyone. And from their posts, they preach happiness and tranquility. They quote the bible and they are positive people. They haven't hurt you have they? I'm not of this religion, but I support any faith that provides "good". These people are intelligent and respectful followers. Leave them alone. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 18, 2008 5:49 PM:

" the church 'preaches' Good Thoughts, Good Words, and Good Deeds. None of that should be a threat to anyone in society. If you are offended, well, i certainly am sorry about that. You have, with an hour's worth of research, become experts in all forms Zoroastrianism. Think that i'll just kick the dust off my sandals now, and move on. Thank you for your time and space. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 18, 2008 5:02 PM:

" Reality check and fmr catholic, you would be experts on cannabis, now, eh? i hear a good sativa will get the crippled up and carrying their litters about. ...and what sort of bush WAS burning on that mountain in....the middle east where cannabis grows everywhere...where Moses 'heard god'?
Religous cannabis costs about what it takes to water it. We've been over this before. "




Fmr Catholic wrote on Sep 18, 2008 4:22 PM:

" Danny: "Per the Yasna Haoma stimulates alertness and awareness"
Reality Check: "Are you trying to claim that Marijuana use somehow stimulates Alertness and awareness?"
Amen, Reality Check! That's why they never get the stuff legalized: It makes people lazy! "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 18, 2008 4:21 PM:

" Dearest Reality check, with all the latest negative publicity about the Mormons, i'd just like to know what sort of demeaning label that you put on them? "




GOGO wrote on Sep 18, 2008 4:20 PM:

" Anyone that attempts to use a religion to mask drug use is very sad and pathetic in my book. The vast majority of the public does not in anyway recognize your false religion as sincere at all. Instead of trying to defend drug use, maybe you should try and preach a positive message to people like, I dont know, how about staying away from drugs. Most real religions tell you to obey Gods law and the law of the land. "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 18, 2008 4:19 PM:

" Anna D and Danny Q,

I have literally looked in to this church for a total of an hour. And I have found holes in your beliefs in regards to Marijuana Use. What do you think a Prosecuting Attorney with dedicated paralegals will find. Your claim of use for religious purposes is going down.

I'm guessing that the church receives some sort of offerings (Money, tithes) from members. There could be a large monetary problem when it comes out that the money gathered was used to purchase an illegal drug. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 18, 2008 4:17 PM:

" The folks in Dan's valley know full well, that not all sects of a religon accept all other sects of that same religion. Is it really that big of a surprise to you that traditional Zoroastrians do not claim us as their own? "




Fmr Catholic wrote on Sep 18, 2008 4:14 PM:

" I'm looking for a new church to belong to...Where is this CJD (Church of the Jelly Doughnuts) I feel really close to Jesus when I'm having a good doughnut... "




Fmr Catholic wrote on Sep 18, 2008 4:10 PM:

" If this was truly some "tradition" passed down over centuries directly to the members of the COC, maybe I could see it, but all this started when some guy who was raised Christian decided to go and use loop holes in the system to get high. Then the law finally found a loop hole to bust him. I suppose if we allow all revivals of ancient religious "sacraments" to be tolerated in this country, we should allow revivals of ancient Maya practices of human sacrifice! Stop abusing the system and get a real job. "




Fmr Catholic wrote on Sep 18, 2008 4:09 PM:

" Anna D. wrote:" Fmr Catholic, i would never 'abuse' cannabis." THere must be a lot of members of the COC if they needed 172 lbs of dried plant material for religious "sacrament" That's a whole lot of weed. If you're smoking enough of this stuff to "see God", you are abusing it. Tell me, is shoplifting a sacrament too? Further, the whole premise for this pot church is merely an excuse for people to get high, ADMIT IT! "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 18, 2008 4:09 PM:

" Did you not run into any of Ali Jafarey articles about his beliefs that cannabis is Hoama? You MUST have in your extensive search for the truth, as he wrote about Zoroastrianism for forty+ years... Talk to Prof. Mayer-Melkyan about cannabis in the archeological artifacts. Victor-Sariandidi and Richard Rudgley are others to research. You may also want to check out Sula Benet, i hope that i have her last name spelled right... "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 18, 2008 3:55 PM:

" So you guys have no problem with our church using cannabis for sacrament, as long as the govt says its okay for med users? Do i hear you right?

Do you think that govt perferred one religion over another, when alcohol was illegal and they'allowed it' for sacramentlal use, but not for cannabis or dmt? Oh, wait, the supreme ct said that dmt was okay for sacrament... "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 18, 2008 3:44 PM:

" Arrrgh. OUR religious text does NOT say that Ephedra is Haoma. OURS says that cannabis is the correct Haoma. Yes, other ingredients have been used by differing sects of Zoroastrians. THAT does not mean that they are correct and that we are wrong. You will get a great variety within religion. Just look at the differing baptism traditions in christianity! We believe in Zoroaster's promotion of cannabis as sacrament, and the Bactria/Margiana digs back us up, amont other evidences. "




Reailty Check wrote on Sep 18, 2008 2:56 PM:

" "Labeling our church a “Pot Church” when it is a Neo-Zoroastrian church is a blatant act of attempting to demonize a sincere religious organization."

You have made the choice to use Marijuana instead of Ephedra and that makes you a POT CHURCH instead of a Zoroastrian Church. "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 18, 2008 2:50 PM:

" http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/schedules/listby_sched/sched1.htm

Notice that Marijuana and THC are both on the Schedule 1 list. That makes them ILLEGAL no matter if your "Reformed" church has changed Ephedra to Marijuana.

Also, notice that Ephedrine, Ephedra, of PseudoEphedrine are not on this list. The combination of chemicals that create "Meth" is on there, but not the plant Ephedra which your religious text refers to as Haoma. "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 18, 2008 2:45 PM:

" And Danny, I'm not saying that Ephedra is any better, just that your own church scholars have said that Ephedra most closely resembles Haoma from your religious text.

And as I pointed out earlier:
Per the Yasna Haoma stimulates alertness and awareness (Yasna 9.17, 9.22, 10.13)

Are you trying to claim that Marijuana use somehow stimulates Alertness and awareness?

And 30 minutes may not make a religious scholar, but that same 30 minutes found some pretty big holes about how MARIJUANA is not used in the church you claim to be part of. "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 18, 2008 2:35 PM:

" "Marijuana is a source of “THC”. Extracted THC has been reduced to schedule 3 because of lack of potential harm, lack of abuse potential, and it's safety in use."

Sorry, but per the DEA Drug Scheduling List of Schedule "1" substances:

Tetrahydrocannabinols
DEA# 7370
Classified as a narcotic
Other names: THC, Delta-8 THC, Delta-9 THC and others

I figured you would know this being it is the Substance your church used for worship. Maybe that is why you are in the situation you are currently in. "




Fred wrote on Sep 18, 2008 1:31 PM:

" Dont any of you hairy legged hippies have jobs? My guess is that you get food stamps and sponge off the government to support your 5 children. Send the kids to live with all of the different fathers and get a job!!! "




Russ wrote on Sep 18, 2008 1:03 PM:

" Daniel- your point behind the receptors is? "




ecdj wrote on Sep 18, 2008 12:36 PM:

" by the way, this plant has been used as a medicine in these united states for two hundred years now right up to today. in that time there have been no reports of fatalities or even any bad side effects (other then the munchies),
do you know of any other medicine that can make that claim? NO! for a hundred years reports have been made on the effects of marijuana on society as a whole and the individual physically and mentally. Not "ONE" of these reports recommended prohibiting or criminalizing it's use. Those reports have been ignored, no longer. "




jodis wrote on Sep 18, 2008 12:11 PM:

" Right on Fred! It sounds like you have been reincarnated. Congratulations! I bet you've even resorted to sandals. You go dude! "




ecdj wrote on Sep 18, 2008 12:04 PM:

" excuse me, now that I think about it I can think of a way one could abuse cannabis. They could make it into a rope and hang/kill someone with it. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 18, 2008 11:53 AM:

" I'd be interest in hearing how one could abuse cannabis, to the best of my knowledge it can't be done! other then by the prohibitionalists and the DEA/lawenforgement obviously. Children have cannabinoid recepters pre-nataly and continue to have them through-out their entire life (just like you and me)until in the end they/we die of old age, get a little reality check on human body chemistry then get back to me. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 18, 2008 10:53 AM:

" Fmr Catholic, i would never 'abuse' cannabis. I would certainly never 'abuse' it around children. Religious use is not abuse. I don't see swat teams crashing in on the christian pastor's house to make sure that their children are not having alcohol poured down their throats. Many have voiced opinions about concern for the children. But the accusations/in-sin-uations seem outrageous when the same thoughts are expressed about alcohol sacrament ministers raising their kids. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 18, 2008 10:19 AM:

" I'm sorry, where was i? There was just a knock on the door from a couple of really nice J.W. ladies. We had such a nice conversation. Really. "




Danuel Q. wrote on Sep 18, 2008 9:59 AM:

" The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) advises consumers to stop using dietary supplements containing ephedra. In order to protect consumers, the FDA published a final rule on April 12, 2004, that bans the sale of dietary supplements containing ephedrine alkaloids.

After a careful review of the available evidence about the risks and benefits of ephedra in supplements, the FDA found that these supplements present an unreasonable risk of illness or injury to consumers. The data showed little evidence of ephedra's effectiveness, ...while confirming that the substance raises blood pressure and stresses the heart. http://nccam.nih.gov/health/alerts/ephedra/consumeradvisory.htm "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 18, 2008 9:58 AM:

" Pay attention,please. We've already gone over how big pharma has 'their' 'cannabis' in schedule 3.
Cannabis sacrament and ritual is central to our religion. Like i said, the church is not going door to door 'pushing' ideas on anyone. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 18, 2008 9:30 AM:

" Remains of 'mostly cannabis',ephedra, and poppy were found in victor Sarianidi's archelogical findings of the last Zoroaster's touted home area. Do religions 'forget' important things? Let's just look at the 10 commandments...Keeping his name holy, which name? Why take a 'generic' word and capitalize it instead of using Jehovah, Yahweh, Jah, El, etc? So much for that command. Keeping the sabbath...wasn't that Friday nite till Sunday? Somebody changed the traditions and then everyone forgot. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 18, 2008 9:16 AM:

" funny, you never hear of a "million march for meth" do you. nor are the heroin addicts putting forth legislation to decriminalize it, or that meth or heroin are their users religious sacrament. Nope! The cultivation of cannabis was the fuel of our nations founding. though it was lobbied against by the oil companies and it's cultivation made illegal in 1937, after entering into WWII in 1942 the government changed it's tune about marijuana and encouraged American farmers to grow "hemp" for the war effort! Why has it remained illegal all this time absent a single overdose/death? "




Danuel Q. wrote on Sep 18, 2008 9:07 AM:

" Reality Check – 30 minutes does not make a scholar. Ali Jafarey is a respected Zoroastrian Scholar. He links hemp with haoma http://www.factnfalse.com/Haoma,%20Its%20Original%20and%20Later%20Indentity.htm in fact there are many “Parsi” Zoroastrians which debate with him over the issue. However he has much older scholarly Zoroastrian roots than most modern “Parsi” whom have chosen to write on the subject. The article above also discusses “ephedra” as a source of “ephedrine”. Marijuana is a source of “THC”. Extracted THC has been reduced to schedule 3 because of lack of potential harm, lack of abuse potential, and it's safety in use. "




Danuel Q. wrote on Sep 18, 2008 6:46 AM:

" Russ, Fred, and Reality check -- Many religions use their scripture to justify their lifestyles. Your point? Devout religionists, it seems, would walk the walk and talk the talk, wouldn't you agree? Seems we have either more mind readers, as to another persons motives, or simply more intolerant persons whom believe only they have an “equal” right to practice the religion of their choice. PS. Labeling our church a “Pot Church” when it is a Neo-Zoroastrian church is a blatant act of attempting to demonize a sincere religious organization. "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 18, 2008 4:23 AM:

" Danuel Q,

Funny, you claim that Ephedra is a Schedule 1 substance, yet it isn't on the list????? Now I hope you know that "Meth" is made from "Ephedrine" which is taken from a legal over the counter drug called "Sudufed" (That's why stores keep it locked up in the back now). The actual Ephedra plant (which contains 1-3% Ephedrine) is not a controlled sustance. But MARIJUANA DEA# 7360 (a Narcotic) is a Schedule 1 substance. So is Tetrahydrocannabinols DEA# 7370 (The active ingredient in Marijuana). "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 18, 2008 3:59 AM:

" Let me just say that it took me all of 30 minutes on the internet to find out that EVERYONE EXCEPT THIS CHURCH thinks that Haoma is the Ephedra plant which grows wild in the middle east (Iran) and India/China.

And you wonder why the judge said you guys are full of ****. "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 18, 2008 3:56 AM:

" Anna,

Luke 21:9

9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass

Luke 22:36

36 And He said to them, “But now, let him who has a purse take it along, likewise also a bag, and let him who has no sword sell his robe and buy one.

Like I said, Jesus did not say you should die at the hands of your enemies rather than to oppose with force. "




Fred wrote on Sep 18, 2008 12:17 AM:

" May the lord let us smoke dope and get naked for the rest of our lives, or until things start to sag and get ugly. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 17, 2008 10:15 PM:

" The Avesta says that a sincere declaration is what it takes. The present day Zoroastrian religion may not have survived had it not been for their clinging to this tradition of only marrying within the religion.
People in many religions have forgotten their older ways. One famous christian religion's founder was darn near burned at the stake for heresy. He survived just to turn around and advocate burning people at the stake. Another christian sect recently got around to apologizing for LOTS of old traditions. Sometimes it takes centuries to accept truths like gravity. "




Danuel Q. wrote on Sep 17, 2008 10:08 PM:

" Russ – Rustom did send a biased witness to testify. A Dr. Bagli. He testified no one knew for sure what Haoma was and that indeed Haoma could be Marijuana. That the Haoma ceremony is the highest liturgical ceremony. That is can be performed anytime a person requested, and as often as requested, and that he performed the “traditional” “Parsi” version of the ceremony in his house. Rustom later published a paper that the North American Federation of Zoroastrians needed to make some changes themselves because of some of what the judge had said in her ruling. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 17, 2008 9:57 PM:

" Gee, call Dan and ask him how he became Zoroastrian! As for myself, i was raised in a family that discussed religion a lot. Gram was Methodist, Dad's side was Lutheran, uncle was an agnostic/atheist that leaned to the Buddhist side. When i had a question, they would encourage me to read more about the question using bible, or encyclopedias, etc. I read stuff in high school like Raswan's books about living in Arabia, uncle worked in Arabia for years. so i had a liberal start. Studied christianity for years. Chose Zoroastrianism over it all. "




Danuel Q. wrote on Sep 17, 2008 9:54 PM:

" Reality Check – Ephedra is also a schedule 1 substance in the Controlled Substance Act. Ephedra is the precursor used in the manufacture of Meth. Are you a promoter of the use of Meth??? Is that why you would insist Haoma is Ephedra rather than Cannabis??? "




Danuel Q. wrote on Sep 17, 2008 9:50 PM:

" Scholars are still attempting to determine what Haoma is. Some are now speculating a mixture of 3 plants but that would not fit the scripture. Haoma is also the name of the plant as well as a drink made from the plant. So it must only be one plant not 3. The plant provide a source of food as does cannabis. Ephedra does not. The plant is tall and the vendidad describes it as a tree. Cannabis can grow to resemble a tree in a single season. Ephedra is a shrub that grows less than a yard in "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 17, 2008 9:49 PM:

" You have to understand that the Zoroastrians have had a tough time with survival. There were a couple thousand years of people getting heads lopped or people getting burned at the stake, etc. for being 'different'. The various Zoroastrian sects are often quite different, even in the scriptures and religious calendars that are used. We try to practice an earlier form of Zoroastrianism than what is most oft seen in Zoroastrianism today. But we see the 'Tree of Life' in many religious scriptures, and try to maintain fellowship with others who honor the spirit of peace. "




Danuel Q. wrote on Sep 17, 2008 9:44 PM:

" Reality Check, Could you please site in the Avesta or Vendidad where it says what plant Haoma is? No you can't because not one Zoroastrian alive today not even their scholars can say with certainty what plant haoma is. I will give you a hint though if you wish to determine if a plant fits all the attributes of Haoma I would suggest you read the Avesta Yasna 9-11, the Hom Yasht. Hom is the Pahlavi word for Haoma. Those chapters are dedicated to haoma. That is where all of the attributes are given in detail. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 17, 2008 9:38 PM:

" The fire priest admitted that they didn't know what plant was the 'original' Haoma. Bactria is touted by the Zoroastrians as the 'last' Zoroaster's home. In the area were many thickets of cannabis. The temples they dug up had vats of mostly cannabis remains. There were home worship vats, too. The there's the descriptions of Haoma in the Avesta and also the word origins point to cannabis. Hao Ma is hemp, in chinese and their pictograph for cannabis shows plants hanging in a shed or cave. "




Fmr Catholic wrote on Sep 17, 2008 9:33 PM:

" ...However, somehow, I think getting the facts straight is not pivotal to winning an argument here...I still can't get over Henry Ford building a car out of hemp in the 40's wasn't he a Nazi sympathizer? In defense of hemp though, the plant that is used for making hippy clothes and the rope to hang themselves with is different from what people can smoke. It's just too darn easy to hide the illegal crop in a stand of the legal! And Washington makes too too much money on counter drug ops to let go! "




Former Catholic wrote on Sep 17, 2008 9:23 PM:

" Hurry up and legalize this crap so people will stop arguing about this and the potheads can smoke themselves even sillier, if that's possible. Like anything:Abusing WILL cause health problems and impair judgment. Let adults look after themselves though. HOWEVER, as w/alcohol IMHO, abuse around children is UNFORGIVABLE!
Also, not defending the catholics, but believe me, no one's getting drunk off what what's called "wine" at mass. It's very weak,you only get a sip and smart people don't wanna drink it because of germs! YUCK! Just want people to get the facts straight. "




ecj wrote on Sep 17, 2008 5:51 PM:

" Jesus said if someone strikes you on the cheek turn the other cheek "Reality Check", what did you think He said, strike first and strike hard? Burn them out of their caves abroad? As to the motives of the "parsis" I believed we covered that already, remember? "




Russ wrote on Sep 17, 2008 5:09 PM:

" Anna- I am curious as to how Dan who was raised Methodist became a member of the Zoroastrian religion (he was not born into it) and why Rustom Kevala, the president of the Federation of Zoroastrian Associations of North America disavowed him and his use of marijuana as a sacrament? This disavowal was so strong it seems he offered to send someone to testify against the Quaintances. What happened there? "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 17, 2008 4:51 PM:

" Comparing Christians that support the War in Iraq to people like you who feel disobeying the law against the use of pot and claiming that you are some spring off sect of a Zoroastrian religion are two entirely different things.

Jesus promoted love for your fellow man, but he did not say you should die at the hands of your enemies rather than to oppose them with force.

And Zoroastrian text doesn't condone the use of Marijuana. It talks of a completely different "Plant" as being Haoma. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 17, 2008 4:45 PM:

" with all respect to those who are christians and have children who are chritiians in Iraq. I would not say Christ doesn't go into battle with your children, if they ask it of Him He has&will be there, however that's not were he would prefer to be. It is up to the Ministers of these churches to educate the children to avoid war and hate though sadly these days many do-not. The false priests are where the blame lays and not with your children. May they all return home safe and whole. "




jodis wrote on Sep 17, 2008 4:28 PM:

" Fred, I think you have lost it. There are some great counselors out there that can probably give you a hand at staying on the right track. You are bringing basketball into this discussion. Wow... are you bi-polar my poor gentleman? There are "herbs" for that ya know. Peace be with you. May the green "grass" grow prosperously in your yard. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 17, 2008 4:11 PM:

" when a government creates a "prohibition" on a staple of the people they set into play a need for acts of civil disobedience, people don't like being deprived. When you legislate those acts into a crime you create a prison system founded on profit yet with the intent of preventing or discourageing those acts, right? It's been 70 year friend, it won't work! The drug war can't be won only prolonged at the terrible expense of our liberties and freedom. Prohibition creates a criminal element where none existed before, when will we wage peace with our fellow humans not war? "




ecdj wrote on Sep 17, 2008 3:54 PM:

" Reality Check, do you know any christians that support the war in Iraq? Of course you do, yet that action is in direct conflict with the teachings of Jesus Christ, He the founder of the Christian Faith. Who would you say is correct, the christians that support the war or their Messiah and Saviour Jesus Christ the Lord God? well it's the same difference here. Jesus returned to correct the misinterpretation of prophecy, that's what the COC intends to do also. We are not speculating about Haoma as these (parsis)who lean towards Ephedra yet admit "they don't know". "




Fred wrote on Sep 17, 2008 3:02 PM:

" Love, peace and perhaps chickin grease, to all who love the Phoenix Suns. Glory be with Steve Nash and his loved ones. Praise the Shaqfu, that he may reighn supreme in his sacred domain we mortals call the paint. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 17, 2008 1:42 PM:

" Fred, i could be wrong but something tells me you are on "phamaceuticals",
am I right? I sense a pain in you and a frustration with no end, you might not realise it but we have that much in common if nothing else. take care, be well and good luck. "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 17, 2008 1:30 PM:

" "Despite strong attempts to do away with Ephedra by those who are eager to see *sauma as a hallucinogen, its status as a serious candidate for the Rigvedic Soma and Avestan Haoma still stands" (Dr. Jan E. M. Houben 2003)

"There is no need to look for a plant other than Ephedra, the one plant used to this day by the Parsis." (Falk 1989)

I guess these Zoroathian Scholars are just idiots and don't know the true use of marijuana. "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 17, 2008 1:07 PM:

" Anna,
"Zoroastrianism is nothing new, it is very old, yet it still hangs on. Most 'traditional' Zoroastrians insist that only those born into or married into the religon can BE Zoroastrian."

I take it that you are from India, or Iran then? Or your spouse is?

Per the Yasna (Zoroastrian text) Haoma stimulates alertness and awareness (Yasna 9.17, 9.22, 10.13)

And all historians claim that the only plant that resembles Haoma is not Marijuana but Ephedra. Which was banned as a medical remedy by the FDA in 2004 because of ephedra-related deaths. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 17, 2008 12:26 PM:

" Jodis,, please excuse the previous miss-spell, that's the kind of thing that happens when i'm not prayered up,lol. Russ, thank you for showing some compassion,blessings. Jah Rastafari, Jah Know, Jah Love! Arizona is a beautiful place filled with good honest people on the most part, of corse you might have the largest prison population of any state per capita but good jobs are hard to come by and the prison-system employees many there. As Jesus said so it is with the COC, "I come not to destroy but to fulfill"! FREEDOM OF RELIGION, sound familiar? "




Fred wrote on Sep 17, 2008 12:24 PM:

" Glory to the Phoenix Suns. "




Fred wrote on Sep 17, 2008 12:12 PM:

" I guess since David Koresh and Jim Jones had a place of worship that they practiced and preached legitamate faiths. Luc Jouret practiced as a minister also. Just because you do drugs and have a monistary does not make you a person of faith. That is called finding loopeholes in the constitution and local laws. "




Russ wrote on Sep 17, 2008 12:01 PM:

" As I said opinions differ. MBA's included. It will be interesting to see what happens. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 17, 2008 10:48 AM:

" Russ, Zoroastrianism is nothing new, it is very old, yet it still hangs on. Most 'traditional' Zoroastrians insist that only those born into or married into the religon can BE Zoroastrian. The teachings of Zoroaster are wonderous and holy to me. I do not expect you to join us, only be respectfully tollerant.
Peace be with you. Sincerely, Anna "




jodis wrote on Sep 17, 2008 9:44 AM:

" Russ, almost everything is a drug. Herbs are drugs. I bet you've probably taken Valerian Root, St. John's Wort, Garlic or even Sage. All of these herbs modify your body in one way or another. Don't call cannabis a drug, it's an herb. "




Russ wrote on Sep 16, 2008 8:29 PM:

" Daniel... you have not swayed me with your beliefs. I am still anti-drug and for me that includes marijuana, as I was before. I, remain unconvinced that your argument deals with a 1st amendment issue as it is more of a lifestyle issue molded into a pseudo 1st amendment issue. Differing opinions can be expressed respectfully. However I appreciate the civility in yours and Anna' s blogging. 20 years seems harsh to me. Hopefully Judge Herrera has great latitude there. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 16, 2008 5:44 PM:

" Fred, i can tell by your stabs you are obviously a un-hippie! Congradulations.
The Chuch of Cognizance doesn't have a president/king/ruler or pope. We have a councle which directs church affairs and conducts the churches programs. also, I am not a hula teacher though I wish I were. I do however understand what it is for someone to give their heart completely, with honor and with respect for that which they deem as sacred. Sadly I have also experienced that it is usually the people who have no such understanding/love or respect that throw most of the stones.
at others. "




Concerned wrote on Sep 16, 2008 3:28 PM:

" Fred- No... some are "Enlightened Cogniscenti". One is a former presidential candidate. One wishes to be hula dancer and the rest well are hep. "




Fred wrote on Sep 16, 2008 2:50 PM:

" Bunch of hippies. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 16, 2008 12:27 PM:

" Aloha again Judis, indeed. I would also share with you that Haoma (ancient deity of marijuana)is to the Church of Cognizance what the hula is to the Hawaiian people. May all the worlds peoples come to honor one-another for the findness with which they extend a hand, and may we all learn to live together on this world in peaces. "




jodis wrote on Sep 16, 2008 11:41 AM:

" Glory to all good people. "




judis wrote on Sep 16, 2008 11:34 AM:

" Aloha Judis, please excuse me as I sometimes can't figure out who said what, lol. By what you've said to me I do believe you are hip and any time you'd like a hula lesson the first thing to remember is the hula is a story told without words, a story of praise for all the beauty we have been given. The second thing (1&2 are equal)is that when you tell the story you must tell it while wearing a big smile and then let your heart do the rest.
Blessings to You and to All. "




jodis wrote on Sep 15, 2008 6:25 PM:

" ECDJ, you must have me confused. I clearly do not understand what you were trying to say to me. I do not know anything about the church or the people in question, I just don't think cannibas is given the positive recognition that it deserves.

And by the way, I'm totally hip. I can't do the hula very well, but I can sure jazz it up in jazzercise class. haha "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 15, 2008 6:04 PM:

" Rasta, i meant sorry about not mentioning the rastas. I find myself playing a lot of rasta tunes lately:every little things gonna be alright, be alright... "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 15, 2008 5:55 PM:

" Rasta, sorry that i left out the Jah People, but everytime i try to speak of Rastafarians, i end up sticking my foot in my mouth. "




Rasta wrote on Sep 15, 2008 5:29 PM:

" Don't forget the Rastafarians. Jah people, free the kind herb from the chains of oppression. Let my people go! "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 15, 2008 5:13 PM:

" Reality check said:In this church, you have Pot smokers (Which is illegal) that join a church that condones pot smoking. They did not give up sin, they joined because the church allows their sin. "
Anna D. says:Gosh, i hope that you weren't in any way involved with Dan and Mary's arrest. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 15, 2008 5:02 PM:

" Was it in 2003 or 2004, that a large group of churches got together and agreed that marijuana should be allowed to be given to those who are in need. Which churches say that it is a sin? I don't see that cannabis is ever spoken of as a sin in the bible. God made the herbs and said that it was GOOD. WHO would say that it is not? "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 15, 2008 4:53 PM:

" For the church it isn't a sin, it is, among other things, a very Holy Blessing. This church does not say that everyone must think their way. You speak as if the church has made up a 'cannabis religion'. This religion is way older than christanity and a major influence on the bible peoples. The sacrament is used by Hindu, Sadhu, some Coptics, Essenes, Shinto, etc. There are more religions that use plant sacraments than there are christian religions/sects. If your church says its a sin, it's a MINORITY! "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 15, 2008 3:52 PM:

" Anna D

"Are 'sinners' OKAY in churches if they only become sinners AFTER they join?"

People sin before they join churches. But for the most part, to truely follow the church, they have to give up their sinful ways. Alcoholics have to stop drinking. Drug users have to "OBEY LAWS" and stop using drugs.

In this church, you have Pot smokers (Which is illegal) that join a church that condones pot smoking. They did not give up sin, they joined because the church allows their sin. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 15, 2008 3:40 PM:

" REality check, did you not know that Dan and Mary WERE with Kripner? "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 15, 2008 3:32 PM:

" Gosh, i thought that some of the books of the bible were written from jail cells....and...do we need to revisit what happened to John the Baptist, James the Just, Stephen, etc? Where was John the Baptist when he lost his head? I have LOTS of relatives that have perished because of religous intolerance, going back to england and the 'bloody Mary' days. We won't even get into WWII. so, yes, I AM a believer in religious tolerance. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 15, 2008 3:17 PM:

" ECDJ, "church of jelly donuts", lol.
...and anyway, i have to wonder if there would BE ANY churches if 'sinners' were not allowed to join. I'm pondering the logic. Are 'sinners' OKAY in churches if they only become sinners AFTER they join?
come on, help me out here,'reality check', TELL this church how to set some sort of religious policy. "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 15, 2008 3:17 PM:

" ecdj,

"You appear to know more about Kripners police record..."

http://www.supreme.state.az.us/

You can look up anyone through 150+ arizona courts.

"... then the CoC did and the "federal prosecuters office" did during the proceedings nonetheless..."

I can't deny that prosecutors overlook blatant facts to get a conviction.

And my question goes to the basis of this church. Do you have pot heads looking to legitimize their actions, or actual people who believe in a faith that happens to believe pot is sacred. Pretty convenient for the previous pot smoker. "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 15, 2008 3:03 PM:

" Concerned,

If I happened to be a leader of a church that believes a substance was a sacred part of worship. Knowing that the substance was currently illegal to possess, I wouldn't endanger my congregation by sending them out to haul weed with a laminated card. I would take the responsibility of aquiring the religious materials myself and not endangering my congregation.

You have to admit that when the church's supply is hauled by a guy convicted of prior drug and other crimes, it looks bad for the church. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 15, 2008 2:40 PM:

" there already is a Church of the Jelly Donuts, it's called a "cop shop", which is much different then "hip hop" if you can dig that? First you post some of Kripners police record and then ask if he joined the church before or after he started using pot.Are you priviledged to the court documents and sword testimony or not? You appear to know more about Kripners police record then the CoC did and the "federal prosecuters office" did during the proceedings nonetheless I do believe he used our Sacrament/Haoma/pot before he found the Church of Cognizance. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 15, 2008 2:35 PM:

" Drug use a good thing? The church does not encourage drug use. Cannabis DRUGS are what the pharma company does when they take the plant, extract the thc, add antifreeze and sesame oil, stick it in a capsule and sell it for several thousand dollars for a month's worth.

For many thousands of years, mankind used herbs (which god said was 'good'.) Who are you to say otherwise? "




Concerned wrote on Sep 15, 2008 2:32 PM:

" Reality Check- I will put it out there. I believe that most of their members are made up of current and former probationers looking for way to legitimize a lifestyle choice. I wonder if they beat this on appeals if Dan and Mary will entrust "courier" duties to say a family member next time to get the job done? "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 15, 2008 2:28 PM:

" Who 'ran' the wine for the christian churches during prohibition, virgins? Why did christians spend the first few hundred years meeting in fetid catacombs? Well, Rome was feeding them to the lions until Rome decided to take up the christian cause. THEN the 'compassion' spread like wildfire, with literally hundreds, no nearly thousands, of years of burning midwives, doctors, scientists, jews, and other 'heretics'.
...and the beat goes on. Point your finger, you have several pointing back at yourself? "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 15, 2008 1:33 PM:

" Another Thing, Kripner was 21 years old in 2003 when he was getting arrested for shoplifting and possession of Marijuana and paraphernalia. Was he then a member of the church? Or did he search for a church that told him his drug use was a good thing?

Did he join the church and start using pot, or did he use pot and join the church?

I wonder when they are gonna make a Church of Jelly Donuts? I need to be with MY PEOPLE. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 15, 2008 1:25 PM:

" jodis, hi there. You say the Oak Ridge Boys are "country/gospel",and you think E.C.Dan&Mary are not? and that that is "far from being hippies", funny, you obviously haven't done your homework on root words and their origin have you? No, you are not Hip! Normally i'd have less to say but you know (or maybe not) the "hippies" have been confused with "A Camp" and been ridicualed from the gate by the laims of the world and why? Because they were hipi (one that is aware)they sought alternitive enegy and gardens 40years ago, do you thank them? "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 15, 2008 1:17 PM:

" "How many churches check criminal records?"

Few churches run criminal background checks. But fewer churches ask their congregation to run "ILLEGAL" drugs for them.

Threats and intimidation
Disorderly Conduct
Interfering with Judicial Proceedings
Failure to Appear in court

These are all crimes that show the true "Character" of the person they chose to run their drugs. If they are helping to turn Kripner's life around, then why endanger his progress by having him haul their Sacred plant? I mean, Kripner loved the chuch so much he testified against them. "




jodis wrote on Sep 15, 2008 10:57 AM:

" Jay, The Oak Ridge Boys are country/gospel, they are far from hippies. Just because a person has long hair, you stereotype them as a hippy? Get a clue! Get out of Graham County long enough to see what real people look like. Not everyone wears Rustler jeans and velcro tennis shoes. "




LDS not LSD wrote on Sep 15, 2008 10:50 AM:

" Yeah, Chong. Green showed up to one our sacrament meetings once during the election too. Haven't seen him since. I'm sure he was hitting all of the sacrament meetings around town because he sure didn't stay for the classes afterward. Would have been nice to see him in Sunday School and the elders' meeting. "




Anna d. wrote on Sep 15, 2008 9:40 AM:

" Fred? Fred?
Was it something i said?
(I also hope that you aren't using one of those little girls' confiscated computers...) "




Jay wrote on Sep 15, 2008 7:31 AM:

" Is this dude the singer in The Oak Ridge Boys? He looks like the hippy from the group. "




ecdj wrote on Sep 14, 2008 9:52 PM:

" Though it is true using buttons and shrooms hasn't raised the standard of living for the Indians finacially the use of these things are not the reason for their poor conditions. They made two mistakes, 1 they trusted the gov. would honor the agreements they entered into(like us)& 2 they used the whiskey the whites gave them to deal with their shame and dishonor when they realised that 1 was just a lie. These People were utilizing these things long before Jesus walked this Earth and/or before the invent of what we call religion today. thank you. "




Duhh wrote on Sep 14, 2008 8:32 PM:

" It appears "still disgusted" wants to woller in his own ignorance. It doesn't surprise me that you turn your nose to people learning history. It is people like you that believe everything the government tells them to. You make a good robot, but one lousy human being. Hopefully you will not spread your ignorance and intollerance.
One more thing, you degrade all indigenous peoples with your racist remarks while you are extremely more ignorant than any of those people could possibly be. It is on the shoulders of giants that we stand to attain greatness. You should be more thankful "




ecdj wrote on Sep 14, 2008 7:18 PM:

" Kripner turned States witness. While under oath Kripner was asked if he had ever been arrested, or convicted. He answered NO to both questions. Judge Herrera's ruling against the Quaintance relied primarily upon finding of Kripner's credibility. So we have a US Federal Prosecutor knowingly allowed perjured testimony to go into the record, prejudicing the Judges ruling, or a Prosecutor that was also unaware of Kripner's past criminal record. How many churches check criminal records? I wonder if the Native American Church runs background checks on “roadmen”, who perform a very similar role for that church? "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 14, 2008 6:19 PM:

" To Reality Check: One more thing that just crossed my mind, is how if this Kripner guy could have spent more time with Dan, that Dan might have turned that person around. Anyone who knows Dan, knows that he'll preach your ears off. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 14, 2008 6:08 PM:

" The church may need to consider asking any future couriers about past shoplifting convictions. I wonder how much of the rest of that courier's record?charges? is/are actually valid(or would have happened), since cannabis has been incorrectly scheduled for quite some time. Anyway, i'm not feeling 'shock'. "




Chong wrote on Sep 14, 2008 5:27 PM:

" Just one less church for our great mayor ( Ron Green ) to go to and campaign at when he runs for mayor. By the way he sure dissapeared from our church after the election. "




Cheech wrote on Sep 14, 2008 4:27 PM:

" Has anyone seen Chong? We were going to Annas house to have a good time. I think he got lost in thatcher and was bitten by a dog. "




bwana wrote on Sep 14, 2008 3:55 PM:

" First off Fred, not everyone who likes a toke on the weekends is a hippie. It's simply an alternative form of relaxation, much your Bud Light beer. Unfortunately, not enough rednecks have died off yet, so our society is still not open minded enough to allow recreational marijuana, the way we allow beer. (Which, by the way is far more destructive!)
I'd also like to add that I have serious misgivings about a society that allows people like Fred into law enforcement. He sounds like someone that regular people need to be protected from! "




Reality Check wrote on Sep 14, 2008 3:47 PM:

" Timothy Kripner, 26, of Tucson showed officers a certificate, signed by Danuel, identifying Kripner as an official cannabis courier for the church. (From the Article)

3/11/2003
Shoplift
Poss Marijuana
Poss paraphernalia
Failure to Appear (FTA)

7/23/2003
Threats and intimidation
FTA

12/8/2003
Interfere with Judicial Proc

1/5/2004
Interfere Judicial
Poss Drug Para

4/13/2004
Disorderly Conduct
FTA

4/20/2005
Poss Marijuana
Poss Drug Para

And multiple other drug possession charges. The official drug courier for the church that has a track record of multiple law violations other than drugs. "




Still disgusted... wrote on Sep 14, 2008 2:17 PM:

" To Mr. Duhh, by the way, good name for you, No I was not aware of LSD users seeing God, as I don't keep up on druggies and their habits, as it seems you do. As far as the indigenous people of the world using mushrooms/peote etc. in their religious ceremonies you can see how far that has got them through the years. It's bad enough these people use the drugs, but worse to turn it into a religion to justify their using it. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 14, 2008 9:52 AM:

" So, even tho i truly admire Jesus' personal ministry of healing and miracles, to say that there was no harm that resulted is quite debatable.
Is harm coming to the C.O.C.?
A question for you is, has society evolved enough to have the religious tolerance (perfect religous tolerance)that our country held to be of such importance? "




Joint wrote on Sep 14, 2008 8:14 AM:

" Hey any one got one, come on over! "




LOSERS wrote on Sep 14, 2008 7:58 AM:

" HEY HEY COME ON NOW..... I MOVED AWAY FROM SAFFORD 7 YEARS AGO!!!!! EVERYONE THERE ARE AN ADDICT OF SOMETHING ILLEGAL! AND IF NOT YOU SHOULD BE FOR LIVING IN A NOT GOING ANY WHERE TOWN, I KNOW I WOULD BE!THOSE TWO PEOPLE JUST GOT CAUGHT FOR TRYING TO MAKE TIME GO BY IN A SLEEPY TOWN. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 13, 2008 11:18 PM:

" Let's see. John the Baptist, James the Just, Stephen(the blood bath went on and on)..and the Desposyni suffered for generations. But I'm all for Jesus' ministry, with all that healing going on. Yah, but he lost his temper and attacked the moneychangers at the temple, and i don't think that set really well...society doesn't like it much when religious figures fly in the face of the fellas making the money. "




send em wrote on Sep 13, 2008 8:52 PM:

" Anna--=His ministry on earth also caused no harm. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 13, 2008 7:52 PM:

" Jerry, i think the comment page was intended for comments, ...right?
Why is it that everybody wants to know my name and nobody will tell me the compelling interest? "




Pot Man wrote on Sep 13, 2008 7:32 PM:

" Pot is the only thing that keeps me from going bonkers and strangling all of the "Fred" and "Russ" people in the world. "




Duhh wrote on Sep 13, 2008 6:03 PM:

" Mushrooms are fungi, not an herb. Educate yourself. It is better to remain silent and give the appearance of ignorance than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. "




Jerry wrote on Sep 13, 2008 4:53 PM:

" It would make a lot more sense for Russ and Anna D. to exchange email addresses and comminicate directly with one another in stead of clogging up the comments page of an otherwise fairly decent publication.
Better yet, Anna D.(if that is your real name), run for office and attempt to change the way the "Russ'" of the world feel about legalizing or decriminalizing the possession of and use of Marijuana.
As for Russ; Crawl back into your bottle of Gin, Whisky, Rum, Vodka or whatever you happen to be drinking tonight. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 13, 2008 4:24 PM:

" I just remembered,that i have even more experience with law enforcement. Dad raised GSD's and our best male was a reject from policedog school. He failed at the bite test, i think cuz he wouldn't bite if a person was defending himself. He was okay in 'play' but evidently drew the line at seriously biting human beings. Gotta give him a plus there. Pack loyal. Never could trust him around kittens and threeday old chicks, tho. "




jodis wrote on Sep 13, 2008 3:28 PM:

" Maybe we can meet as a support group sometime and have a Graham County debate team. I would be all over it.

Fred, just curious, what did you do at the jail? Jailer, maintenance man or maybe you actually graduated to cafeteria worker. Bless your heart, you have a one track minded mind with extremely narrow tunnel vision. "




jodis wrote on Sep 13, 2008 3:24 PM:

" Fred, you are hilarious and not the sharpest tool in the shed. I have never been in jail, let alone in trouble with the law. I hold a MBA and do not live in Graham County; however, I was raised there. I lived there long enough to know that some law enforcers in that town are nothing but men with big ego's and small body parts. Who I am is who I am. Provide your real name and phone number and I can happily contact you. "




Duhhh wrote on Sep 13, 2008 3:07 PM:

" Dear disgusted, majic mushrooms that contain the psycedelic psilocybin are alread used in religious ceremonies of indigenous peoples throughout the world including Mexico and the U.S.A. Duhhh! Most of the intoxicants used in such ceremonies are hallucinogens. Examples are the mushrooms, peyote (mescaline) DMT and others. I'm sure your aware of LSD takers seeing God so I don't know why you make a weird leap that other hallucinogens aren't used for the same purpose. "




disgusted with Anna wrote on Sep 13, 2008 1:28 PM:

" Well of course the pot smoking religious nuts arent going to knock on doors trying to spread their religion, because they know what they're doing is illegal. I guess soon there will be a religion popping up because someone will worship the magic mushrooms, afterall, its a natural herb also isn't it? "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 13, 2008 10:13 AM:

" Fred, now..., you're sounding awfully hateful with that 'pityful pagan church' thing. I certainly hope that you were not a part of the raid on Dan and Mary's maonastery. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 13, 2008 10:04 AM:

" I really didn't come away from my personal 'insider' experience with the law, as a 'cop hater'. I understand the stress that they endure, i've experienced it. Serve and protect the people. Society is in no danger from members practicing their religion and aiding the sick and dying. Church members do not even go around banging on doors trying to spread their religion. Where's the compelling interest? "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 13, 2008 9:46 AM:

" Ah, Fred, you can imagine what old jailers still remember. And what are the chances that i was also married to a cop? i know how the boys operate and what their mindsets are. quite well.

Russ, please explain your 'poll' remark, then. Perhaps it will give me more insight as to your reasoning approaches. "




Fred wrote on Sep 13, 2008 12:25 AM:

" Hey Anna, I dont think you do understand the poll I was refering to. "




Fred wrote on Sep 13, 2008 12:22 AM:

" To jodis and Anna, you can be anyone you want on the computer. the only "law enforcement" experience you have is doing time in county. I, on the other hand AM in that field and have been for YEARS. I hope that your pittyful pagan church and followers can somehow see the light and get out of that pot smokeing lifestyle. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 12, 2008 11:42 PM:

" Russ, doctors have been recommending it for years now. Safety has already been determined. There is no other medicine that i know of where so MANY doctors are okay with their patients growing and preparing a treatment. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 12, 2008 11:26 PM:

" Russ, From what i understand, once mmj had accepted use by any state, it wouldn't fit into schedule 1. Marijuana as a 'schedule 1 substance' is what Dan and Mary were charged with, and probably thousands others since California passed its mmj law. Read the schedules and tell ME where you think that mj belongs since it does have accepted use in many states. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 12, 2008 11:13 PM:

" Well, no i didn't say that it should go into schedule 2. I don't think that it fits there, either. Have you looked at the scheduling? From what i understand, when those schedules were set up, provisions were made for substances to be removed or moved, so that it wouldn't HAVE to be 'voted on again'. I don't know if mj fits any of those schedules. It may be that mj falls into more the tabacco or brewery catagories, but i don't know. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 12, 2008 9:01 PM:

" If it were legal. (i believe it is, see below)
but for the sake of pondering your question...There are several countries where it IS legal, they are doing fine.
There are a dozen states that seem to be working out their mmj laws pretty well, DESPITE federal interference. I'm not sure what you mean by legal. "




Russ wrote on Sep 12, 2008 8:45 PM:

" Anna- Am curious you point out that MMJ should be reclassed as schedule 2 like cocaine and make claims that the DEA has not done their jobs in reclassing it. Even though Congress it seems has the authority as well to do it. You also make claims that the Quaintance's arrest was premised under the misclassification of MJ as a schedule 1 drug. As such the arrest was wrong because California and 10 other states believe in the MMJ issue. Am I understanding you? "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 12, 2008 8:44 PM:

" TG, i agree completely about that not all herbs or natural products are safe.
But, i plead with you not to draw the line at a lie. If cannabis is safer than alcohol, then do you need to think about drawing the line so that it eliminates alcohol as sacrament, too? "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 12, 2008 8:34 PM:

" Poison for sacrament. You mean like alcohol? Where WILL it end? Next thing ya know, religions will start using faux-cannabalism in their rituals, too.

compelling interest, that is where it ends. What do you think govt's compelling interest IS, in prohibiting a safer substance than alcohol or the UDV's sacrament? "




jodis wrote on Sep 12, 2008 8:10 PM:

" Fred, Fred, Fred, you are wrong, wrong, wrong. I am a professional, earning and saving more than you will probably ever see. I am not a hippy, never have been. With that said, I wonder if you have ventured out of your single wide and into a library to research cannibas. Did tobacco smokers turn to meth? Do alcohol drinkers graduate to harder stuff? Heck no. Have some common sense you guys. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 12, 2008 4:53 PM:

" Fred, hippified jobs? LOL, like Policemen? I try to keep abreast of the news (hence the 'poll thing'). Have you not read how the police forces have had to lower their stringent hiring policies, in regards to mj?
My first job was in the field of law enforcement. Later, became a teacher. Retired now, helping to raise a couple of grandkids. Heh, 'hippified', i like that. "




TG wrote on Sep 12, 2008 4:51 PM:

" Let's drop a dose of reality into this crazy discussion. So lets say we let it be legal. Where does it stop? Next thing you know, some new person says his religion is based on Meth. He'll have researched it and made it sound just as logical. I don't care if pot is natural, that argument is lame. There's plenty of 'natural' plants out there that'd kill you instantly if you ate it.

You have to draw a line somewhere, and I think the line shouldn't budge. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 12, 2008 4:39 PM:

" Fred, What if Mary and Joseph had said that? didn't hear them turning down the gold then. Didn't hear so much complaining when Jesus' relatives were freed from Babylonia and given back their gold. I realize that times have changed and certainly you are entitled to your opinon. ...and your freedom of movement. I'd like to see Dan and Mary have that same freedom of movement. "




Fred wrote on Sep 12, 2008 3:14 PM:

" In regaurds to the "poll" in which you speak, it sounds like you are quite the authroity on them. I do not think that dope smokeing hippies have good jobs, probably just working at some low paying hippiefied job. And no I dont know much about your "church" because I choose not to be around pagans. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 12, 2008 2:16 PM:

" I've not seen that this church has ever claimed to be better than any of the sons of God...
The church would like to practice its religion in peace and aid the sick and dying. The practice of this religion is causing no harm. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 12, 2008 2:09 PM:

" Send em, i already explained how when California accepted medical use of cannabis, marijuana did not fit schedule one. That is what is being used to charge the Quaintences, and others...many others. Congress already GAVE THE RESPONSIBLILITY to the dea to keep the scheduling status current to applicable changes. They did not. So if it isn't legally schedule one anymore (many states have mmj laws) where is it? We do not need to LOBBY to get this changed, the one's responsible to keep it current FAILED to do so. For years. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 12, 2008 1:58 PM:

" In response to 'Lets Get High':You have an interesting comment. Dan and Mary, as well as others, have been prohibited from practicing their religion for years, now. This is equivalent to what our leaders criticize other nations for.
Personally, i would like to see the church members doing less prison ministry and doing more to help the sick and dying, in genreal. "




send em wrote on Sep 12, 2008 12:59 PM:

" No sympathy-send them to prison. Obey the laws of the land. (or change them) The son of God subjected himself to the laws of the land what make these people any better? "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 12, 2008 12:10 PM:

" Fred, are you taking on a leadership role for this church or just 'hippies' in general? You, who have confessed knowing nothing about the religion, are now telling the church members what they ought to do. Any more words of wisdom? What about our educations or sex lives? Enlighten us, wise one. "




Frank wrote on Sep 12, 2008 12:09 PM:

" Hey dopers... This bud's NOT for you! "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 12, 2008 11:55 AM:

" Fred,
You are insinuating that the members of the church do not work? The last poll that i saw, had 'users' in the lower to mid 70 percentile. That would be like 3/4 of the population. Cannbis use crosses all societal lines, which would mean that all sorts of workers are/have been mj users. That would include doctors, lawyers, pharmasists, dentists, truck drivers, teachers, and those who clean out sewers or are unemployed or disabled.

Nobody from the church is trying to convince you to use. "




REALLY wrote on Sep 12, 2008 11:42 AM:

" Im not a pot smoker but I got to love the fact that the laws only apply to groups of people. Guess there is always a way to use the system to your favor. Plus 20 years for smoking some pot. that is crazy, keep our prisons open for the real criminals out there. And ive never met a pot somker who robbed a gas station or snached a car to keep up his habbits. "




Lets Get High wrote on Sep 12, 2008 10:56 AM:

" Thet should mark the pot (somehow)and see how much makes it to the prison system.

I am willing to bet that they will indead smoke their dope as soon as they get locked up.
What a joke.
OUR SYSTEM "




Fred wrote on Sep 12, 2008 9:55 AM:

" All you hippies should go and get a job instead of smokeing pot, or trying to convince us that its ok to do so. "




jodis wrote on Sep 12, 2008 8:56 AM:

" Rational Thought, I wonder how many people that drink alcohol turn to meth. Do you have the stats? There are so many narrow minded people out there that only hear what they want to and how they were taught by their elders. Cannabis is a naturopathic herb. Should you condem Coca Cola? Valerian Root? St. John's Wort? Not much difference and all products are sold in stores. "




Rational Thought wrote on Sep 11, 2008 10:27 PM:

" My apologies for chiming in late. This comment is in response to Good, the first blogger:

You are approaching the slippery slope from the wrong direction. You should not ask how many meth users started out with pot, because that logic can extend to things like tobacco, alcohol, even air! How many meth users have drank alcohol or breathed air before? Probably 100%.

The real question should be how many marijuana users ended up using meth ,vs how many marijuana users stopped at marijuana. That is the problem with the "gateway drug" argument the way it's commonly presented. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 11, 2008 7:47 PM:

" ECDJ, stop, you are on the wrong thread, wrong site. I know that you just got new software, but darnit, pay attention! and by the way, that other site is truly scarey, please stay away from there. "




E.C.D.J. wrote on Sep 11, 2008 7:03 PM:

" excuse me, it's the penecostal in me that sees the evil and calls it out!
If you believe that depriving people the right to practice their religion in America is ok, I think that speaks for itself. The Federal Law doesn't need to be changed it needs to be observed by the DEA. Marijuana does-not qualify under federal regulations as a schedule I drug as of 1996 at which time it's medicinal use was first observed in California,U.S.A.. It was the DEA's job to reschedule it then but guess what? they didn't! so... your point? E.C.D.J. "




E.C.D.J. wrote on Sep 11, 2008 6:46 PM:

" Aloha from Hawaii to All. Russ, now you
wouldn't like it if someone accused you
of being a member of a Reigion only to justify the wageing of war against other cultures & people of color would you? or that your statements are just a covert form of insulting any people and beliefs that don't bow down to yours. Of course you won't come out and say that you are an imperialist (your to smart for that)yet i'll bet you'll be voting for McCain for a change in Washington,lol. your bud E.C.D.J. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 11, 2008 6:29 PM:

" congress enacted RFRA for a purpose, as well. RFRA trumps the CSA, in fact all laws. UNLESS govt can show a compelling interest for burdening religious practice. What do you think the compelling interest is in preventing church members from using marijuana, and from them aiding the sick and dying? "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 11, 2008 6:24 PM:

" Russ, i thought that i explained that the scheduling law was 'innactavated' when california passed a medical law.
the us supreme ct in gonzales v oregan interpreted section 903 of the controlled substances act (in 2006), that it is the states determined medical practices, not the federal govt. AND to be a schedule one substance it has to have no accepted use in any state. and dan and mary were charged with possession of a schedule one substance, towit marijuana. Mj is no longer a legal controlled substance. dea just has not done their job in removing it. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 11, 2008 6:05 PM:

" EC DJ, Russ is using statistics and logic from govt sources. He seems to believe that 200 pounds of cannabis would 'prove' insincerety and he's seemingly somehow equating the church's Haoma with 'recreational quality' cannabis. Seeded cannabis flowers for the religious libation is NOT what recreational users desire at all. i have to laugh a little at how that 200 pounds scares people. Did the wine sacrament churches take shot glasses from the winery to churches during prohibition?

mind your manners, please. "




Russ wrote on Sep 11, 2008 5:48 PM:

" ECDJ- Hello from Graham County. Funny out of all the conversations I have had here today yours is the saddest and the most ridiculous. Why is it that people have to resort to name calling? Why can't people have 2 opposing viewpoints? You don't like the laws then change them. The laws that the Quaintance's were arrested under were not even Arizona or New Mexico laws but U.S. laws. Write to your Senators and Congressmen and tell them to change the laws. By the way remember to call them names and see how far it gets you. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 11, 2008 5:23 PM:

" Russ, oh i really am sorry, i didn't realize that your agreeing with the judge was your answer? I guess that i have to accept that. I know Dan and Mary and i disagree, so i guess there ya have it.

Thanks for the rational discussion,Russ, i don't usually find such manners in such matters, people get so fueled up over religious issues. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 11, 2008 5:07 PM:

" Russ, alfalfa is 100,000. a bale, now? You are NOT seeming to get my point. It may be worth that much for the govt to keep illegal, but cannabis grows faster than zuccini. Just add water! "




E.C.D.J. wrote on Sep 11, 2008 5:02 PM:

" Aloha from Hawaii to All. Russ, now you
wouldn't like it if someone accused you
of being a Christian in order to wage war against other cultures & people of color now would you? That in fact your statements are just a covert cover to justify striking down the people and beliefs that don't bow down to yours, with not only words but with deadly force if needed, right? Of course you won't come out and say that you are a racist/nazi/imperialist (your to smart)yet that is what you have been doing and what you appear to be2me. E.C.D.J. "




Russ wrote on Sep 11, 2008 4:24 PM:

" Sorry Anna my estimate was high. I have taken it off of 2007 comparable busts by DPS in the Az area that place it more in the 100,000 dollar range. I don't think I avoided any questions you might have had but if so ask again. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 11, 2008 3:14 PM:

" Fred, these were the guys that reportedly brought gold, incense, and myrrh. Some folk think that they had tremendous influence on bible history.
They have, perhaps older, yet similar 'Tree of Life' scriptures as the bible and other scriptural/historical writings. These Zoroastrians/Mazda-worshipers also freed the hebrews from Babylonia and paved their way back to the holy lands and even were supportive of rebuilding the temple. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 11, 2008 3:08 PM:

" Russ, WHERE do you get that price? For a monastery to grow,as a cottage sacrament, it would cost no more than a bale of alfalfa to grow. That 'worth' that you talk of is prohibition distortion.

The church lifestyle of using the sacrament is well within the religion's 'scope and sequence'. Dan and Mary are exemplary examples of this branch of Zoroastrianism.

You still avoid my questions... "




Fred wrote on Sep 11, 2008 2:53 PM:

" I do not even recognize any of those pagan so called "religions" in the first place. So I have no clue what the heck a Magi is. I thought Mazda was a car and Zoro was a sword carrying swashbuckler. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 11, 2008 2:27 PM:

" Fred, if the issue is smoking dope, then it goes right back to the religion. Yes, the Zoroastrians, Magi and other Mazda folk used censors and they pounded the Hoama into a ritual drink. For the church members to do this is not hurting anyone. "




Russ wrote on Sep 11, 2008 2:12 PM:

" Anna- Ok I believe as does Judge Herrera that the Quaintances are masking a lifestyle choice behind religious freedom. If this was a true 1st amendment issue I would jump on your bandwagon in a heartbeat. Yes I believe you all know that it is against the law. But when caught it conveniently becomes a violation of rights. When does it become a matter of accountability? Laws are in effect. You don't like them? Then change them! We are not talking about 28.5 grams here. We are talking about 172 pounds of marijuana. That's several hundred thousand dollars worth. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 11, 2008 1:51 PM:

" I do believe that the schedules make reference to 'any of these states' ...as far as 'having a medical use'...so, that would BE the federal schedule...and if ANY state had medical usage, it would not fit that schedule. It does not seem to fit any of the scedules, in that case. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 11, 2008 1:39 PM:

" Russ, ok, so will you now respond to my questions? You are avoiding important issues. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 11, 2008 1:30 PM:

" "Great Healings", hospitals,and 'medicine men' are a great part of various religions. There are states that in their laws RECOGNIZE 'religous medicine'. I do believe Az is one. 'perfect tolerateion...' Of course a cannabis sacrament church will have members that have mmj concerns.

The last survey that i saw said 72% used marijuana, and 76% appouved of mmj. Az voted a couple of times, the will of the people who are probably not happy that the taxpayer is paying. Good thing, cuz its a poor church and important issue. "




Russ wrote on Sep 11, 2008 1:21 PM:

" Anna- I was not aware that state law could trump federal law. "




Russ wrote on Sep 11, 2008 12:36 PM:

" Anna- Now you are changing your argument. First it was religious freedom now medical. Jack and I sparred on this before. For every scientific study out there that is pro you can find one that is con. However you did not answer my question if you know the answer...who is paying the bills? "




Fred wrote on Sep 11, 2008 12:32 PM:

" Jack, Jodis and Anna D., You have some very good "facts". I will agree that hemp is good for this and that. But the issue is smokeing pot, not putting hemp to good use. I think that some or all of you are anti-government, conspearacy theory, left wing folks that are probably light in the loafers. Facts about using hemp as a viable alternative to paper have nothing to do with smokeing dope. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 11, 2008 11:25 AM:

" Russ, please respond to my previous questions.
Are you aware that cannabis is not even scheduled properly? The fact that even having ONE state that provides for medical cannabis, that cannabis doesn't meet the scheduling at all? That would make the gestapo-like tactics of the dea ILLEGAL ever since California made cannabis medical law. And now there are about a dozen states that have medical marijuana laws. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 11, 2008 11:11 AM:

" Fred...What if i said that you are a strange American. Not believing in freedom of religion, perhaps you should be the one seeking a different place to live? You must be some Nazi-crazed redneck...?

I'm sorry about that, but see what you are saying?

We COULD live in peace. This religion is not invading your home against your will.

If the govt. decided to actually endorse cannabis in all its various functions and YOU do not believe in cannabis use at all, should the govt then treat you with swat teams,guns and dogs? "




Jack Herer wrote on Sep 11, 2008 10:37 AM:

" One acre of hemp equals four acres of trees. It takes the trees 50 years before they are mature, hemp does it four times a year. If you want to save the world, wake up and utilize the plant that used to be utilized for nearly everything. With today's advancements, hemp can literally end our dependance on foreign oil, clothe and feed the earth and its animals, house us, better our health and bring us more together as a people. God bless. "




Jack Herer wrote on Sep 11, 2008 10:34 AM:

" Today Cannabis is used (as it has been for thousands of years before prohibition) in a multitude of medicinal products for many different ailments. New research shows it slows down and may reverse the onset of alzheimers disease. Reasons the government outlawed Cannabis and hemp were: 1. A lot of agents left from alcohol prohibition didn't have anything to do so they found something new to prohibit. 2. Newspaper giant Randolf Hearst owned major timberland tracks that would be worth less money if the paper industry swictched to hemp. Plus many more. "




Jack Herer wrote on Sep 11, 2008 10:30 AM:

" Fred, you are obviously swayed by the last 70 years of government hypocrisy where they used "yellow" jounalism and racial hatred to outlaw a plant that most humans have used for more than 10,000 years. Cannabis and its cousin Hemp are some of the most versatile and useful plants known to man. You can make more than 5,000 various products out of hemp. Henry Ford built a car out of it and ran it on hemp too! That was in the early 1940's, after the government illegalized it, than told farmers to grow it for the war effort. cont. "




Russ wrote on Sep 11, 2008 10:26 AM:

" Ok Jodis what is your proof that marijuana is a ordinary staple in diverse states for most people? "




Fred wrote on Sep 11, 2008 10:06 AM:

" Bwana and Anna D, you are both some strange hippies. You need to go to the Netherlands, Canada or someplace like that and live your pot smokeing, granola eating lifestyle. I cant believe you people would actualy believe that its ok to use drugs. Either you are real young, ignorant, or just plain hippyfied with no ethics and loyaltys to anyone but dope. "




jodis wrote on Sep 11, 2008 9:37 AM:

" I am not a member of the COC church or have I researched their procedures to fully understand the faith. I do however know that cannabis is not a deadly thing. Should the folks of Graham County venture out to CA and other diverse states, they will find that cannabis is an ordinary staple for most people. It is no different that wine, beer or any other legal mind altering products. If it is used for medicinal purposes or to calm stress or nerves, it is still safer with less side effects than anti-anxiety prescription drugs or anti-depressants. "




blindguy wrote on Sep 11, 2008 8:19 AM:

" Gateway drug? Prove it! It’s a plant! Get over it. Quit wasting taxpayer’s money on prosecuting pot crimes. Lets get smart about this, everything that has been tried to stop the drugs has failed and is costing billions... but I suppose that’s better then admitting defeat and legalizing and taking the money out of the criminal's hands... oh wait, that would make sense, and we rarely do what makes sense. "




bwana wrote on Sep 11, 2008 5:55 AM:

" It saddens me that our society has not evolved enough to accept people like the Quaintances. There is NO justification for the continued illegality of private marijuana use by adults, and certainly no cause for condemnation of the Quaintances. "




Russ wrote on Sep 11, 2008 1:39 AM:

" Anna- I suspect you are a member of the COC. You, Dan and Mary and the rest of the COC can argue against it all you want. However, until you lobby to change the laws marijuana in the amount that Dan and Mary had is illegal. As such there are consequences for those actions. 20 years maybe to long a consequence I don't know. That is for a judge to decide. I am curious though and maybe you can answer this for me. Who is funding their appeals for them? "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 10, 2008 11:33 PM:

" Russ, you said"Personally I'd rather eat sugar. "
I'm not really sure what you mean by that. Does this mean that you would rather bow to the govts whims than do what your religion mandates? Ok.
I say 'govts whims', in this case, only because cannabis was not always 'illegal', in fact it was grown openly and endorsed by the govt. Kids worked the fields.

Govt gets pretty brutal with their whims, tho. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 10, 2008 11:20 PM:

" Russ, you said:" Anna- You and your parents had a choice not to to give the kids the "wine" at sacrament."

...and Dan and Mary have a choice on whether or not to give the "thc" at sacrament, too. They've turned away insincere adults. There are special reassuances in the pledge of the church concerning minors. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 10, 2008 10:03 PM:

" Are you sure that is what they knew?
Az law insists on PERFECT TOLLERENCE of religion. The US constitution says something about that, too. The UDV decision had also just been made. Religious Peyote is legally tollerated. Dan and Mary have had personal religious experiences with Haoma/cannabis, including healings. They have archeological evidence of sacramental Cannabis in the temples and homes of Bactria/Margiana, the area where the prophet Zoroaster is said to have died.(as well as other evidences that Haoma is cannabis)...and Haoma is central to Zoroastrian ritual. "




Russ wrote on Sep 10, 2008 9:05 PM:

" Anna- You and your parents had a choice not to to give the kids the "wine" at sacrament. Pot may or may not be bad, There are plenty of studies out there pro and con. Danuel and Mary knew that it was illegal when they got caught with over 172 pounds of it. Whether or not 20 years is appropriate I don't know. Personally I'd rather eat sugar. "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 10, 2008 8:08 PM:

" Why do these people deserve prison time???? They are good people who have pledged to help the sick and dying. They have given food and water and shelter to many who were trying to find their way in the desert.
In their religion, a very old religion which still exists, (they didn't make this up), it is those who hamper the religious use of Cannabis who will be cursed by the Creator. "




Out of Thatcher wrote on Sep 10, 2008 7:40 PM:

" Maybe Darlene Alder can solve this crime! "




Anna D. wrote on Sep 10, 2008 6:59 PM:

" You know, i don't do meth, but i did attend a church that gave a dangerous and deadly substance to minors, as religious sacrament. That was a christian church and they served children wine.

There is nothing 'horrible' about cannabis, except the results of the war on it that this country wages daily. Cannabis is safer than sugar.

Many many more meth addicts started out using alcohol in church.

Evil? God made cannabis and said that it was for our 'meat'. WHO would be against that? WHO is the evil one? "




wow wrote on Sep 10, 2008 6:31 PM:

" something i will never understand.. these 2 really deserve prison time.. but how is it that someone can murder someone or try to and get less than 20 years?? alot of the time this happens. life use to have value . what has happened to that value now??something to think about.. this is sad.. "




Good wrote on Sep 10, 2008 10:41 AM:

" I hope these people go to prison and sit in there and think about how horrible pot is. You losers out there can justify it all you want and say "theres nothing wrong with smoking a little pot now and then", but the fact is how many meth addicts started out just smoking a little pot? It is a gateway drug. It is evil, and all you pot smoking losers know it is, so give it up now before you end up going to the big house like these low lifes who were passing it off as sacrament. "